Category: Prime Minister (1990-1997)

  • Mr Major’s Joint Press Conference with the Swedish Prime Minister – 11 August 1993

    Below is the text of Mr Major’s joint press conference with the Swedish Prime Minister, Carl Bildt, held in Stockholm on Wednesday 11th August 1993.


    PRIME MINISTER BILDT:

    We are extremely pleased to see Prime Minister Major here; it is as a matter of fact a quarter of a century since a Prime Minister of Britain paid an official visit to Sweden.

    We have now had an hour and a half of official talks covering mainly the situation in former Yugoslavia, what we jointly are trying to do there as well as different European Community matters, primarily of course the enlargement negotiations.

    We have, on the question of former Yugoslavia a desperate situation in Sarajevo and Bosnia and decided in the course of the day to take a joint initiative to bring the war victims, roughly 40 of them, out of Sarajevo, half of them children. They will be going to Britain, to Sweden, a certain number to Ireland. We are ready to start the operation with our own transport aircraft within the next 48 hours in consultation with the UNHCR in Geneva and of course the government of Bosnia.

    PRIME MINISTER MAJOR:

    We spent the earlier part of our discussion, as the Prime Minister said, looking at the various problems in former Yugoslavia and the problems of enlargement in the Community; we will have the opportunity of continuing those discussions tomorrow during the day but also over a very lengthy dinner tomorrow evening so there is a great deal more to discuss bilaterally.

    As the Prime Minister said, we have agreed that it in right to have a joint initiative to help the 41 seriously injured victims in Sarajevo. These discussions have been going on for a while, they have reached fruition today. What we propose is that 20 of those victims will come to the United Kingdom, 16 of them will come to Sweden and 5 of them will go to Ireland. We would expect that they would come out within 48 hours or so. The reason for the delay is the necessity of bringing the families of the sick people together so they can accompany them to the United Kingdom – there are some logistical difficulties. I would expect that we would send an air ambulance with around 25 doctors and nurses to Ancona; from there onwards, a Hercules would go into Sarajevo with some of the medical staff, bring the victims out and then bring them on to their destinations; that is certainly what we expect.

    I think this is a desirable initiative but I think the point that both of us would emphasise is that that deals with the people who are seriously injured at the moment. We would hope that others would perhaps join this initiative and then make sure that in future we are able to deal more speedily and more comprehensively with people who need serious medical help and cannot get it there; I very much hope that that will happen.

    We have had considerable help from the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees and I would also like to thank the Saudi Government who have made a very significant cash contribution towards the cost of this enterprise; I am delighted we are able to do it; I very much hope we will be able to get these sick people back where they can get proper medical treatment very speedily.

    The Prime Minister and I will be happy to take any questions you may have on any of the matters we have been discussing.

    PRIME MINISTER BILDT:

    Could I add that we are ready to send a Swedish Air Force Hercules directly down to Sarajevo tomorrow. We have also been in touch with the Swedish hospitals that have the special capabilities to be able to treat especially children that have different war wounds so we are on both sides ready to go subject to UNHCR.

    QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

    QUESTION:

    Mr. Major, where are the victims going to be treated in the United Kingdom and how soon can they be got out?

    PRIME MINISTER MAJOR:

    We will get them out as speedily as we can. We will certainly have the medical staff, ambulance trauma staff, the doctors and nurses there within 48 hours. As soon as we can get them out, we will take them from Sarajevo to Ancona, from Ancona back to the United Kingdom.
    We have had a large number of offers of support but I would expect that all the injured will be treated in National Health Service hospitals.

    QUESTION:

    At Government cost?

    PRIME MINISTER MAJOR:

    At Government cost.

    QUESTION:

    Mr. Major, why didn’t you start evacuating these people until the pictures of the little girl Irma appeared in the British media?

    PRIME MINISTER MAJOR:

    We have had the largest humanitarian operation in Bosnia of any nation for a very long time; it is now very nearly a year ago since we decided to send a large number of British troops there. I think I would say to you in response that there are probably well over 100,000 people alive in Bosnia today as a result of the British humanitarian effort over recent months. I think that is a very proud record and I am delighted we were able to do it.

    We have been considering what we can do for some time. The opportunity arose the other day with the little girl – we brought her out. We have now been able to extend that and I am very grateful that we have been able to do that. I hope now others will follow suit, that we will be able to cut down on some of the difficulties in getting people out and will be able to arrange a more permanent system of help for very many people.

    QUESTION:

    Mr. Major, is there a risk, apart from all the obvious humanitarian aspects, that this might give the wrong sort of message to the Bosnian Serbs as they encircle Sarajevo, that if they make matters bad enough the West will come in and pick up the bits?

    PRIME MINISTER MAJOR:

    I don’t think the Bosnian Serbs should misread what we are doing in any way. What we are doing now is a humanitarian gesture to bring out seriously injured people who cannot get the help they need in Sarajevo, to make sure they get the medical attention they need speedily and comprehensively.

    The Serbs should realise that we are determined to make sure there is a settlement to this dreadful dispute. Helping 41 people rather more I hope in the future – is very welcome but what we really need is an end to the dispute. That is why we have been pressing for the negotiations to come to a successful conclusion, it is why we put diplomatic pressure on them, it is why we have been prepared for some time under the right circumstances to engage in air strikes and we are determined to continue to put pressure on the Serbs, on the Croats and on the Muslims in different ways to try and make sure that we get a satisfactory settlement and the end of fighting.

    QUESTION:

    But if this did actually appear to lead to an increase in the bombardment of Sarajevo would that make you change your attitude on air strikes?

    PRIME MINISTER MAJOR:

    I see no reason to suppose why that is going to be the case and I think the Serbs are very well aware that they would be very unwise to increase the bombardment of Sarajevo. I think they are in no doubt about that.

    QUESTION:

    Why have the EC and the UN failed to stop the war in ex-Yugoslavia?

    PRIME MINISTER MAJOR:

    I think that is a question that isn’t just for us. Essentially, the difficulties in Bosnia are a civil war; that is not readily solved from outside.
    Right from the outset of this conflict there have in theory been two ways to solve it: one way was to put in several hundred thousand troops on the ground and forcibly hold the combatants apart perhaps for years at tremendous cost of life and then with no certainty that the fighting would not start again the moment those troops left. The only realistic way to reach a satisfactory conclusion is the way that the West and the United Nations have chosen and that was to seek to provide humanitarian aid to limit the suffering and to seek a negotiated settlement that would end the war. I know of no other way that would have been successful.

    QUESTION:

    [Inaudible] but do you see air strikes on Serbian positions happening this week?

    PRIME MINISTER MAJOR:

    I think you know the present position about that; that has been discussed. We have indicated that in order to reinforce the diplomacy air strikes have been a possibility for some time.

    PRIME MINISTER BILDT:

    We have also discussed what is necessary in order to reinforce the UNPROFOR forces primarily when it comes to the implementation of safe areas and the preparations under way in the Nordic countries for the sending of a heavy Nordic battalion to the area and I hope that we will be ready to take the final steps on that in terms of decision-making in the four Nordic countries within the next few days subject to political procedures in all of the four countries.

    QUESTION:

    Have you suggested that the Americans should help in this action?

    PRIME MINISTER MAJOR:

    In the humanitarian action no. This is not something we have discussed with the Americans on this occasion. This is an initiative Sweden and the United Kingdom have been discussing for a few days; we decided that for the time being we are able to cope with the difficulties that exist and the important thing is to do it quickly and so we have proceeded to make sure we have got the quickest possible outcome but in the future of course we would welcome help from every source in order to help with the humanitarian assistance.

    PRIME MINISTER BILDT:

    And from our point of view you can say it is a logical extension of the effort that we have on the ground in Bosnia and in Sarajevo with medical staff there helping at the actual hospitals but what is being done now is to bring out those people, children and others, that can’t for different reasons be treated there but it should not be forgotten that a lot of countries, Sweden in the forefront, have a major effort around the hospitals and helping people on the spot in Sarajevo and the rest of Bosnia.

    QUESTION:

    When you talk about a permanent system of getting refugees out, how would that operate?

    PRIME MINISTER MAJOR:

    That has to be discussed with the United Nations, the High Commissioner for Refugees and others but what we wish to ensure is that in future where necessary there is perhaps a speedier route to ensure people receive the medical assistance they need. I think that will be welcome. There are obvious difficulties in achieving that – don’t let me suggest to you that that is going to be readily done or easily achieved but I think we should seek to see if it can be done; I hope and believe it can.

    QUESTION:

    If we hadn’t witnessed the case of this little girl, can you honestly say that you would be standing here today making the same announcement?

    PRIME MINISTER MAJOR:

    I can certainly say to you that we have been looking for some time at what we can do to help the seriously injured people in Bosnia and in particular in Sarajevo, yes I can certainly say that.

    PRIME MINISTER BILDT:

    Ladies and Gentlemen, we are short of time and there will be a press conference on Friday when we can sort out the rest of the problems of the world.

  • Mr Major’s Best of British Speech – 30 July 1993

    Below is the text of Mr Major’s Best of British or Britain Means Best speech, given on 30th July 1993.


    PRIME MINISTER:

    In the last few months we British have broken a number of records. Exports are at an all time high. We now export more per person than Japan. Retail sales are at a record level. Our competitiveness is improving at a record rate. Strikes are at the lowest level since records began over 100 years ago. And the number of people who own their own homes is the highest ever.

    That is all excellent news. But we cannot afford to be complacent.

    That’s why I have spent the last year putting in place policies to get British industry moving again.

    British business has now got the framework it wanted: low inflation, low interest rates, competitive prices and a single market in Europe.

    And they’re making the most of it. We are conquering new markets, investing more and as a result unemployment has been falling for five months in a row.

    That’s good, but it’s not good enough. Unemployment is still far too high. We are going to have to fight harder to sell our goods in Continental Europe. But we are on the right track. And Britain is expected to grow faster than almost any other country in Europe this year and next.

    Last year we succeeded in getting inflation down, my number one priority. We mustn’t lose that. My priority now is to make sure that ‘British means Best’ in every market. That means buying the best machines and creating the best designs. That means a well educated workforce, that is prepared to train and retrain. That means governments have to get rid of fussy, nit-picking regulations. Some rules are a necessary evil. But let’s not have unnecessary evils as well.

    The other necessity is to reduce the budget deficit.

    Every family knows you can’t go on spending more than you earn. The same is true for governments. Our spending on social security is rising too fast. More and more people are claiming benefits. We must ensure the really needy get all the help they deserve. But we also need to make sure we aren’t giving taxpayers’ money – your money – to people who don’t need it. This will involve some tough decisions. But governments are there to do just that – take the responsible long term view.

    Of course, irresponsible opposition parties will always offer you the best of all worlds – more spending, no tax increases. But the British people aren’t mugs. You know there’s no such thing as a free lunch.

    All of us need to think and plan long term. There isn’t going to be a repeat of the boom days of the late 1980s. No more stories of Champagne shortages. Those times were very good for some people. But they couldn’t last. And they aren’t what we want. We need a recovery that raises everyone’s living standards. That may mean it is more gradual, but it will mean that it lasts.

    In Government it is the long term that matters. That was why it was necessary to get inflation down. That is why we need an influential position in Europe. That is why we must plan now for the social security system we can afford in the future. None of these policies may make us popular in the short term. But they are right for the country in the long term. And we are going to stick to them.

  • Mr Major’s Statement on the ERM – 30 July 1993

    Below is the text of Mr Major’s statement on the ERM, made on 30th July 1993.


    PRIME MINISTER:

    The events of last week and the weekend vindicate our decision to suspend sterling’s membership of the ERM last September. As I said then, there are fault-lines in the system, which have now affected all the other currencies.

    What we hope will emerge from the weekend’s changes will be conditions that will promote economic recovery in Europe. 60 per cent of our exports go to EC countries, so the opportunity for lower interest rates and a stimulus to economic growth is welcome.

    It is not in the UK’s interests to see currency instability in Europe. So I understand the decision to widen the bands and stick to existing parities, rather than suspend the ERM itself.

    The fault-lines in the system have clearly been exposed, and the Community will have to consider carefully in the longer term what the lessons and the implications are.

    As the Chancellor has made clear, there is no prospect of the UK returning to the ERM in the near future, and we shall continue to set monetary policy by what’s right for the United Kingdom.

    We have always made clear that we did not believe the time-table for EMU set in the Maastricht Treaty was right or practicable. As I said in a speech in the House of Commons on 9 June:

    “In the negotiations at Maastricht I sought and secured an opt-out on the single currency because I was sceptical of its economic impact across Europe and its artificial deadlines … When I was negotiating at Maastricht, the idea of monetary union in 1997 looked ambitious, perhaps even a little dubious. I have to tell the House it looks wholly unrealistic today.”

    I stand by every word of that. The EMU time-table looks totally unrealistic now.

  • Mr Newton’s Statement on Maastricht – 27 July 1993

    Below is the text of Mr Newton’s Commons Statement on Maastricht, made on 27th July 1993. Tony Newton was the Leader of the House of Commons and Lord President of the Council.


    TONY NEWTON:

    Following the decisive conclusion last Friday of the Parliamentary processes on Maastricht, Parliament goes into its recess this week after a highly productive session, with well over 30 Acts put onto the statute book so far.

    Despite a total of 40 days of debate in the two Houses on the European Communities (Amendment) Act, the Government has also successfully moved ahead with the programme put before Parliament fifteen months ago.

    Of the 15 Bills promised in the Queen’s Speech, 12 are expected to have been passed by this evening – achieving, for example, further improvements to trade union law; important reforms of leasehold, the rights of council tenants and the arrangements for urban regeneration; a firm basis for the continued success of personal pensions; paving the way for coal privatisation; and underpinning our educational reforms. Other significant Bills, including the Railways Bill and the National Lottery Bill, are well on the way to completion before the new session begins later this year.

    In addition, over 20 other Government Bills have been passed, for example, to restrain increases in business rates; to establish a new basis for the Independent Living Fund which helps very severely disabled people; to assist with insurance costs arising from acts of terrorism; and to abolish car tax.

    With the Maastricht debates behind us, and the economy now moving ahead, there could be no clearer evidence that, under the Prime Minister’s firm and determined leadership, the Government is achieving its objective.

  • PMQT Written Answers – 26 July 1993

    Below is the text of the written answers relating to Prime Minister’s Question Time from 26th July 1993.


    PRIME MINISTER:

     

    Japan (Visit)

    Mr. Llew Smith : To ask the Prime Minister what specific representations he received from Japanese non-governmental organisations on (a) nuclear non-proliferation, (b) international trade in plutonium and other nuclear explosives and (c) nuclear waste management assistance for Russia, during his visit to Japan for the recent G7 summit.

    The Prime Minister : I did not receive any representations from non- governmental organisations on these issues during my recent visit to Japan.

     

    Sustainable Development

    Mr. Chris Smith : To ask the Prime Minister, pursuant to his answer of 19 May 1992 to the hon. Member for Harlow (Mr. Hayes), Official Report, column 113, if he will list the members of the new ministerial committee on the environment, referred in paragraph 4.5 of the consultation paper “UK Strategy for Sustainable Development”; how often it intends to meet; and if he will provide details of its remit.

    The Prime Minister : The remit and membership of the ministerial committee on the environment remain as stated in my answer of 19 May 1992, Official Report, column 113. Meetings take place as necessary.

     

    Drug Misuse

    Mr. Rathbone : To ask the Prime Minister if he is satisfied with the present arrangements for co-ordinating Government action on drug misuse between the different Departments of State ; and what proposals he has to improve them.

    The Prime Minister : The Government are committed to bringing forward proposals to improve further the co-ordination of the control of drug misuse. Options are currently under consideration.

     

    Top Salaries Review Body

    Mr. Wolfson : To ask the Prime Minister if he will make a statement on the Top Salaries Review Body.

    The Prime Minister : The name of the Top Salaries Review Body (TSRB) has been changed to the Senior Salaries Review Body (SSRB). At the same time the Review Body’s terms of reference have been revised. Both these changes have been introduced at the Review Body’s request, and have been agreed with it. The revised terms of reference are as follows :

    “To advise the Prime Minister on the remuneration of holders of judicial office; senior civil servants, senior officers of the armed forces; and such other public appointments as may from time to time be specified.

    The Prime Minister may also ask the Review Body to advise from time to time on the pay and pensions of Members of Parliament and their allowances; Peer’s allowances; and on the pay, pensions and allowances of Ministers and others whose pay is determined by a Ministerial and other Salaries Order.

    Procedures

    The Review Body will make other recommendations as it sees fit in order that the level of remuneration for the groups covered by its remit is sufficient to ensure, over time, the recruitment and retention and motivation of suitably able and qualified people to exercise their different responsibilities;

    to ensure that, as appropriate, the remuneration for the remit groups relates coherently to that of their subordinates, encourages efficiency and effectiveness, and takes account of the different management and organisational structures which may be in place from time to time;

    to relate reward to performance where appropriate;

    to maintain the confidence of those covered by the Review Body’s remit that its recommendations have been properly and fairly determined ; and

    to ensure that the remuneration of those covered by the remit is consistent with the Government’s equal opportunities policy. In making recommendations, the review body shall consider any factors which the Government and other witnesses may draw to its attention. In particular it shall have regard to :

    differences in terms and conditions of employment between the public and private sector and between the remit groups, taking account of relative job security and the value of benefits in kind; changes in national pay systems, including flexibility and the reward of success; and job weight in differentiating the remuneration of particular posts; and

    the need to maintain a broad linkage between the remuneration of the three main remit groups, while allowing sufficient flexibility to take account of the circumstances of each group.

    The Review Body will take account of the evidence it receives about wider economic considerations and the affordability of its recommendations.”

     

    Overseas Visits

    Mr. Vaz : To ask the Prime Minister how many overseas visits he has made since he assumed office ; and if he will list the venue, the duration, the purpose and the cost to public funds of the visits.

    The Prime Minister [holding answer 22 July 1993] : The information requested is as follows :

    Venue |Duration |Purpose |Cost (£)

    ———————————————————————————————————————————————————————–

    Italy |13-15 December 1990 |European Council |60,805.00

    USA |20-22 December 1990 |Bilateral |33,871.00

    Saudi Arabia |6-8 January 1991 |Bilateral }

    Oman |8-9 January 1991 |Bilateral } |45,098.00

    Egypt |9 January 1991 |Bilateral }

    France |14 January 1991 |Bilateral |1,857.00

    France |20 January 1991 |Bilateral |1,165.00

    Germany |11 February 1991 |Bilateral |1,388.00

    Soviet Union |4-5 March 1991 |Bilateral |50,352.00

    Germany |11 March 1991 |Anglo-German Summit |3,153.00

    Bermuda |15-16 March 1991 |Bilateral |24,670.00

    Luxembourg |8 April 1991 |Informal European Council |8,107.00

    France |24 June 1991 |Anglo-French Summit |10,422.00

    Luxembourg |28-29 June 1991 |European Council |45,323.00

    Spain |2-13 June 1991 |Holiday |9,560.00

    USA |27-30 August 1991 |Bilateral |53,951.00

    China/Russia |1-6 September 1991 |Bilateral |196,844.00

    France |11-12 September 1991 |Bilateral |10,325.00

    Netherlands |18 September 1991 |Bilateral |962.00

    Zimbabwe |14-22 October 1991 |Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting |199,488.00

    Italy |7-8 November 1991 |NATO Summit Meeting |54,600.00

    Germany |10 November 1991 |Bilateral |1,340.00

    Italy |27 November 1991 |Bilateral } |7,947.00

    Germany |27 November 1991 |Bilateral }

    Netherlands |1 December 1991 |Bilateral |1,736.00

    Republic of Ireland |4 December 1991 |Bilateral |2,684.00

    Netherlands |8-10 December 1991 |European Council |64,371.00

    USA |30-31 January 1992 |United Nations Security Council Meeting |58,928.00

    Poland |25-26 May 1992 |Bilateral }

    Czechoslovakia 26-28 May 1992 |Bilateral } |53,757.00

    Hungary |28-29 May 1992 |Bilateral }

    Germany |5 June 1992 |Bilateral |1,012.00

    USA |6-9 June 1992 |Bilateral }

    Colombia 9-10 June 1992 |Bilateral } |318,146.00

    Brazil |10-12 June 1992 |United Nations Conference on Environment and Development }

    Portugal |25-27 June 1992 |European Council |64,458.00

    Germany |6-8 July 1992 |G7 Economic Summit |140,908.00

    Finland |9-10 July 1992 |CSCE Summit |41,612.00

    Spain |7-9 August 1992 |Olympic Games |79,469.00

    Spain |16-17 September 1992 |Bilateral |2,293.00

    France |30 September 1992 |Bilateral |4,346.00

    Egypt |23-25 October 1992 |50th Anniversary Commemoration of El Alamein |74,616.00

    Belgium |23 November 1992 |Bilateral |7,041.00

    Italy/Greece |27-28 November 1992 |Bilateral |14,512.00

    Luxembourg |30 November 1992 |Bilateral }

    Spain |30 November to 1 December 1992 |Bilateral } |14,908.00

    Portugal |1 December 1992 |Bilateral }

    Denmark |2 December 1992 |Bilateral |9,570.00

    Netherlands |6-7 December 1992 |Bilateral } |8,148.00

    Republic of Ireland 7 December 1992 |Bilateral }

    France |15-16 December 1992 |European Parliament Plenary |7,910.00

    Canada |17-18 December 1992 |EC/Canada Talks } |120,775.00

    USA 18-20 December 1992 |EC/United States Talks }

    Bosnia |22 December 1992 |Visit British Forces |10,828.00

    India |23-28 January 1993 |Republic Day Celebrations

    Oman 28 January 1993 |Bilateral |179,512.00

    Saudi Arabia |28 January 1993 |Bilateral

    USA |23-25 February 1993 |Bilateral |46,696.00

    Switzerland |5-6 April 1993 |Bilateral |n/a

    Austria |6 April 1993 |Bilateral

    France |27-28 May 1993 |Bilateral |n/a

    Denmark |20-22 June 1993 |European Council |n/a

    Japan |5-9 July 1993 |G7 Economic Summit |n/a

    n/a=Not yet available.

     

    Deregulation (Construction Industry)

    Mr. Chris Smith : To ask the Prime Minister if he will make a statement on the outcome of the meeting held on 20 July with representatives of the deregulation task force on the construction industry.

    The Prime Minister [holding answer 23 July 1993] : On 20 July I chaired a progress meeting on deregulation attended by Ministers and permanent secretaries from regulatory Departments, Lord Sainsbury and all the task force chairmen. We welcomed progress on specific deregulation measures to reduce the burden on business. Ministers agreed to address changes requiring primary legislation as soon as parliamentary time permits. Ministers also agreed to publish “Working with Business : A Code for Enforcement Agencies” and a report on the operation of European Community law in the United Kingdom; to review how duplication between enforcement agencies might be eliminated; to require a small business litmus test of the impact on them of any new regulations; and to set up an eighth task force focusing on charities and voluntary organisations.

  • Mr Major’s Joint Press Conference with French Leaders – 26 July 1993

    Below is the text of Mr Major’s joint press conference with President Mitterrand and Prime Minister Balladur, made in London on Monday 26th July 1993.


    PRIME MINISTER:

    We have had this morning a series of discussions. I have had the opportunity this morning of discussions with President Mitterrand and the Prime Minister. During the time we have held those discussions eight of our Ministerial colleagues have been discussing their own particular areas of responsibility. At the conclusion of their discussions the whole team came together for a plenary meeting and then had the opportunity of discussing matters again over lunch.

    When I became Prime Minister some time ago one of the particular objectives I had was to develop relationships between Britain and France. It seemed to me that our countries had a substantial pool of common interests, there was a great deal of scope for cooperation waiting to be tapped. I think what today’s summit shows, with a much larger participation I think than we have ever had before amongst other Ministers, is that we have travelled a very long way down that road of cooperation.

    Today’s summit follows months of intensive work, Prime Minister Balladur’s visit to London in early May, my own visit to Paris at the invitation of President Mitterrand later on that month.

    Let me set out in very brief terms prior to your questions some of the results of those discussions.

    May I turn first to foreign policy. I think it is undeniable that we are working more closely today on international problems than ever before. We have discussed Bosnia at different meetings today, we have agreed that the key points that support the efforts of Dr Owen, and Mr Sholtenberg to reconvene the negotiations in Geneva this week. We clearly are concerned to help Sarajevo, to support UNPROFOR’ s efforts to create a ceasefire, to restore water, to restore power and to secure access for the relief convoys. We also want to sustain the humanitarian relief efforts as long as conditions permit and to accelerate the implementation of the safe areas resolution, including the provision of air support.

    We discussed a number of matters relating to the European Community, including of course the joint Franco-British exercise on subsidiarity. France and Britain have now agreed a list of 24 items of Community legislation, many of them substantial, that need to be repealed, withdrawn or amended. Examples of that include tax directives on stock exchange transactions, directives on drinking water and pollution which in our judgment are much too detailed and much too prescriptive. Both our countries will also be collaborating with Germany which has drawn up a list of substantial items of its own. The aim of this work is to present the results of it, jointly, to the European Commission in the autumn as part of the preparation for the December European Council decisions.

    We have had some discussions this morning also on joint defence interests. We set up last autumn the Franco/British Joint Commission on Nuclear Policy and Doctrine, the objective is to coordinate our approach to deterrence, to nuclear doctrines and concepts, anti-missile defences, arms controls and non-proliferation. We have decided today to make this Joint Commission a permanent standing body with a substantial amount of work to continue into the future.

    We have looked also at joint defence projects, we reviewed collaboration in defence projects, Britain and France at the moment are working together on 21 separate projects, some of them also involving other countries as well. We have more British projects with France than with any other single international partner.

    We discussed also briefly the Channel Tunnel and I am pleased to announce that Her Majesty The Queen and President Mitterrand will jointly open the Channel Tunnel on 6 May 1994.

    We discussed also science and technology, we have decided to reconvene a Franco/British conference to explore fresh approaches to science policy. I think it will be a wide ranging conference, it will look at questions such as technology transfer, how to ensure that research leads to better product development and far better public explanation of scientific questions.

    We also looked at the question of D-Day and its 50th anniversary. Next year is a very remarkable part of our joint history with the 50th anniversary of the D-Day landings. Britain and France are planning to commemorate this historic event in an appropriate way, there will be very substantial celebrations to commemorate that and Ministers have been appointed in both countries to supervise the preparations. Those Ministers will be meeting shortly in order that we can bring those preparations to fruition. I expect we will be able to announce details of the commemorative events in the autumn.

    We have covered a range of other issues but rather than running through them in great detail I will try and pick up any points of interest to you in the question period we will have shortly.

    PRESIDENT MITTERRAND:

    I will not add anything really to the list of issues that have been discussed, what you have heard is a very complete list and this gives you an idea of the subjects we have talked about. It will be for you to ask the questions you want to ask.

    So I think it is more a question of the general spirit and atmosphere that I would like to talk about. We have had great pleasure in coming here to London and meeting our British partners and exchanging with them our positions and thinking and arguments on the problems on which we have diverging opinions and also we have been able to note that there were more and more points on which our views were the same.

    In the field of foreign policy where our two countries have very long standing experience going back many many years, in Europe in particular, well there it was easy for us to reach common conclusions. On the new problems that are coming up, new in relation to this generation, in relation to history, in other words the setting up of the European Community and its consequences, its impact, its effects, and the development of world trade, on those matters we still have to define more closely our actual positions but we are delighted with the efforts that have been made successfully by the British government in order to enable the development of the Maastricht agreement. Of course each country will operate according to its own style and on the basis of the text which is the basis of the European Agreement.

    What has just been said about the commemoration of the 50th anniversary of D-Day, well we all know what we owe to the United Kingdom and on the French side we will do all that should be done in order that people representing political and military spheres should meet with the warmest and the most grateful welcome possible. It is an important date, it was an important date in the relationship, as you know, which have become now very friendly relations, which became very friendly relations between our two countries at the beginning of the century.

    M. BALLADUR:

    At this stage I have got nothing further to add to that, thank you.

    QUESTION (La Tribune):

    Did you talk about the EMS this morning and has Mr Major any views on the chances of its survival and has Britain any particular interest in the EMS? On the French side, can we be told if the chances of escaping shall we say the British model with a more competitive currency at a lower rate of interest with more creation of jobs, is that likely to happen, or are the markets going to impose the same thing on France as it imposed on Great Britain last year?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    We certainly spent some time discussing this matter this morning and I think the statement issued this morning by France and Germany, the Franco-German statement, reaffirms support for the existing parity and close cooperation within the European Monetary System. I do not think it is in anyone’s interest to have continuing currency turbulence in Europe, it damages the prospect for economic recovery in everyone’s export markets so I hope the possible turbulence will settle down, but I have nothing further to say than that.

    M. BALLADUR:

    I would like to add something on that. Firstly, you asked the question in a way to elicit a certain response, I have never heard of a more competitive currency, a reference to that, what is important is that economies be competitive with one another. In France we have achieved good results on that, we are very much attached to monetary stability, we do everything we can to try and ensure it, and I note that the Prime Minister has just said that the English too want this monetary stability maintained in Europe and that they do not consider that there would be any advantage in greater instability.

    QUESTION (….Liberation):

    What did you discuss on GATT? How did both sides look to the future in the negotiating process on trade agreements?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    We had some discussions on the Uruguay Round this morning and our Agriculture and Trade Ministers also spent some time discussing it; it is clearly a matter of immense importance. All of us are agreed on the importance of the GATT Round and of a successful outcome on agriculture. We know that France has some particular difficulties with the Blair House Accord and it must be examined in more detail by the Community, hence the request for a Joint Council in September and I think in particular the constraints which Blair House would impose on internal management of the CAP, on growth in EC exports, erosion of Community preference, those are problems that France have raised and that the Community will have to discuss.

    We all agreed that a durable and balanced agreement is necessary. I know in the discussion between Agriculture Ministers that Gillian Shepherd emphasised that in our view the Blair House Accord was a good one for the Community but these are matters we need to discuss. What is a matter of agreement between us is the overall desirability of a satisfactory and balanced GATT agreement.

    PRESIDENT MITTERRAND:

    We come back to an idea which already has been expressed at least a hundred times but I think should be reiterated with strength and that is that the GATT negotiations – world trade negotiations – are not only on agriculture. I think that one of the mistakes made by people who started the discussions – I have in mind particularly our American friends – way back in 1985 was that they were totally obsessed with agriculture and that gave the impression that people wanted to get agreements which would be good agreements where it was possible for that particular country to find that beneficial leaving out areas where one might not be able to reach such favourable agreements for oneself. This was Mr. Reagan’s sign of the times – the way we interpreted it anyway. That is why France is talking about a global comprehensive agreement.

    To come back to agriculture itself, the important thing is that the agreement should be a balanced agreement. You can’t have an agreement which is one-sided. If there is a compromise solution found, it must be beneficial to all the parties concerned.

    Concerning Blair House, this is a point of friction naturally because we think that the agreement needs to be revised because it happened under conditions which we think questionable. In any case, the only thing that really counts is the political decision, the actual political decision taken by the countries concerned; that carries much more weight than the purely technical discussions that take place beforehand.

    That is why we are quite prepared to say and repeat that an overall balanced and lasting agreement would be a good thing for international trade but it would be a bad thing if it turned out that those agreements were based on a grave injustice that we just don’t want which I think people can easily understand.

    QUESTION:

    Can I just add a further question? Can one say that there has been progress today on GATT?

    PRESIDENT MITTERRAND:

    It seems to me that there has been progress on two areas, firstly I feel that we better understand one another – at least I for my part better understand the British position and secondly I think we agree and consider that a meeting of Foreign and Agricultural Ministers should be held in September which will be very important and it will be there that we will be able to discuss agriculture and the general organisation of world trade so we must prepare very actively for that meeting in September. Our British friends have agreed that that would be an important date.

    QUESTION (Adam Boulton, Sky News):

    I wonder, in view of the reported comments in the Sunday papers this weekend, if Mr. Major could tell us how much longer he thinks he is going to be able to cohabit with some of his Cabinet and what advice the President and M. Balladur would give on cohabitation with ideological opposites. [Laughter].

    PRIME MINISTER:

    It seems to work very well.

    QUESTION (David Langton, Bureau of National Affairs):

    Of course, no illegitimate questions from me at all!

    On GATT, last week we had the Director-General, Peter Sutherland, hoping to knock out a conclusion by the end of this year. Have you got any good or bad news for him?

    Secondly, the French Foreign Minister, Alan Gerait [phoentic], was calling for trade policy instruments to be strengthened. Did you discuss the strengthening of trade policy instruments today, particularly in relation to, say, US anti-steel dumping provisions?

    PRESIDENT MITTERRAND:

    Yes, we did. Mr. Major asked me questions about that and I gave him a certain amount of detail about what we would wish. The problems, as I said, will be dealt with in the documents that we will send to Brussels in the forthcoming weeks.

    PRIME MINISTER:

    We have to find a solution to anti-dumping and countervailing actions – there is no doubt whatever about that. I expressed the view this morning that the long-term solution to problems of international trade in steel lies in the conclusion of a multilateral steel agreement and we will continue to stay in touch to discuss that particular matter.

    QUESTION (Tony Bevins, The Independent):

    Have you apologised to the bastards, Mr. Major?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    We have been discussing Anglo-French matters this morning, Tony, Anglo-French discussions.

    QUESTION (Keith Rockwell, Journal of Commerce):

    Mr. Balladur and Mr. Major, was there any discussion of the EC’s policy with regard to the import of Japanese cars and was there any discussion at all of Britain’s role in all of that, whether British-made Japanese cars might be subject to any further restrictions?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    No, that wasn’t discussed in our discussions this morning and don’t believe it was raised when the Trade Ministers met.

    QUESTION (Carol Walker, BBC TV News):

    Given the attack on the French base in Sarajevo, was there any further discussion about the possible use of air strikes?

    PRESIDENT MITTERRAND:

    It is a subject that we started to deal with several weeks ago when the so-called “safe areas” were decided upon within the UN and the point being made that respect for such safe areas is for mainly Muslim citizens in Bosnia and that the protection of such zones could require means that would be used in order to protect the populations if they were threatened and this is what is happening right now in Sarejevo in particular.

    QUESTION:

    I would like first of all to ask you about the latest escalation in the Lebanon and the latest Israeli aggression of the sovereign state of Lebanon. How do you see the effect of this on the peace process in the region?

    My second question is addressed to the French President, M. President, changes in immigration in France have created an atmosphere of uncertainty among the immigrants in France and in particular among Arab immigrants and North African immigrants. Are you aware of this new atmosphere in the immigrant community and do you envisage any change that would take account of this situation which is unstable?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    On the first point, we did not discuss Lebanon this morning. On the second point, I will let the President respond directly.

    PRESIDENT MITTERRAND:

    I would have preferred to have answered the first question as a matter of fact but when people fight each other on both sides of a frontier you can’t expect the sovereignty of each country to be fully respected and once that situation obtains then it is very natural that both sides have to accept the consequences of such a conflict and that conflict will necessarily make the peace process more complicated. There is an inherent contradiction in all this which is pretty obvious.

    On the immigration legislation, you are talking about French political affairs there and I have not come here to London to talk about internal French political matters – that is rather the same as Mr. Major’s answer a moment ago when there was some mention of the necessity of talking about our Franco-British meeting and avoiding a sort of British-British discussion or a discussion internal to Britain as we say Franco-French on our side. You say the same thing? Anyway, I don’t think that the immigrants in France when they are in a completely lawful situation that is accepted, when they have been legally admitted to France following a certain number of procedures which on labour matters come under the Ministry of Labour and it can be the Ministry of the Interior when it is a question of permits and so on so foreigners who are living in normal conditions, when they are legally present on French soil, must be treated normally.

    If they are not present legally on French soil – if they are illegal immigrants – then they can hardly expect to be treated exactly in the same way so it is their natural fate to be taken back home sooner or later. Now there the discussion does start of course within France and with other countries to see what safeguards and guarantees should be granted to these men and women because they deserve respect even if they have gone against the law and we have to see with other countries too what should be done in order to respect their own individual human rights but this is an internal French affair quite honestly and there is no point in having a discussion among ourselves here in Great Britain.

    QUESTION (France Two):

    Mr. Prime Minister, have you discussed the future of the EBRD and is Britain going to support a French candidate to support M. Atteli [phoentic]?

    M. BALLADUR:

    The future of the EBRD for the moment is a matter of choosing a president for the institution. As you know, France has an excellent candidate and for the rest you must ask Mr. Major what his views are.

    PRESIDENT MITTERRAND:

    If Mr. Major allows, I will recall some memories perhaps which are more personal memories for me than for him because at the time when the various seats and headquarters and offices were negotiated among a number of international bodies, including EBRD, it had been understood that if the headquarters were to be in London then at least the first presidency and the first term of office would be a French presidency. If it isn’t the same president nevertheless I think it would be right and only natural that it should be the same country and this would be accordance with the original agreements.

    PRIME MINISTER:

    [Inaudible] excellent candidates. The Community are seeking a unified candidate. We have expressed our view to the President of the Community and I hope will reach a conclusion shortly.

    QUESTION (George Jones, Daily Telegraph):

    Could I ask the Prime Minister and the President, given what looks like the imminent collapse of the Exchange Rate Mechanism and all the turmoil there has been in France over Maastricht and in the British Parliament, whether they think the treaty is still relevant or should probably be torn up and the Community should start again on a more realistic and perhaps lowered-expectation treaty for European union?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    I don’t think the treaty should be torn up. The British Parliament has passed the treaty, it is now an Act, it has got Royal Assent subject to one outstanding court case which I hope will be swiftly cleared away and it will come into effect and I welcome that fact self-evidently since we have just taken it through Parliament. I think there is much in this treaty that is good for Europe and good for the United Kingdom and I believe it was right to take it through the House of Commons.

    PRESIDENT MITTERRAND:

    On my side, of course, I submitted the Maastricht Treaty to a referendum in France, in other words it is the French people that voted and who chose finally what to do and there was a political battle which was a pretty difficult one where some important and very often excellent arguments were expressed on both sides. This was a national debate of considerable magnitude but the rule of democracy was applied and France adopted the Maastricht Treaty by popular vote and now the Maastricht Treaty is our rule. I was in favour of it, as you know and therefore I was delighted that this was the decision taken and the decision that was taken I would not say was more important than a vote by Parliament because I am very much in favour of representative democracy – France is a representative democracy. Because under our legislation a referendum was perfectly possible, it was a very important way of getting this really firmly established in our history and this has been done and is behind us and the government also very much hopes that the agreement will be successful.

    Your somewhat hasty definition, if I may say so, of the fact that now the time had come to tear up the treaty and that the EMS is completely excluded I think is subject to examination. We are precisely working through this and it is difficult but France’s determination is unquestionable and we think that the future of Europe is important. We have different conceptions very often on this but we certainly will coordinate our efforts to the same goal and in my view at any rate it would be very harmful and very sad if the remarkable progress made among the Twelve should be into question whereas the prospect before us is that in a few years now we will have a single currency.

  • Mr Major’s Comments on Party Unity (II) – 23 July 1993

    Below is the text of Mr Major’s comments on the unity of the Conservative Party, made during an interview held in London on Friday 23rd July 1993.


    QUESTION:

    [Mr Major was asked why he had resorted to a vote of confidence].

    PRIME MINISTER:

    We have now concluded the Parliamentary procedures on this particular piece of legislation, why has it been so difficult? One of the reasons it has been so difficult is that although the Labour Party and the Liberal Party support the principles of that legislation, in a wholly unscrupulous manner they have voted against it again, and again, and again, voted against what they have said and what they believed in – that was what eventually drove us to a confidence motion. In the interests of this country we needed to remove this debilitating dispute, we have done, we have done it in a fashion that has given us a very substantial majority, we can now draw a line under that and move on to other matters.

    QUESTION:

    [Mr Major was asked if the rebellion in the Conservative Party on Europe would continue].

    PRIME MINISTER:

    There has been a small number of people in the Conservative Party who do not like European policy for 20 years, there is a rather larger number in the Labour Party who do not like it, there is even a closet anti-European in the Liberal Parliamentary Party, that stretches across all the Parliamentary parties. In Parliament there is a very large majority for the Government’s European policy. What happened was that the Labour Party and the Liberal Party, for their own party political purposes, ignored what was right for the country and formed an alliance across the House to try and defeat this particular piece of legislation, it was, as I say, unscrupulous, but they have lost.

    QUESTION:

    [Mr Major was asked if he needed to strengthen his leadership over the Conservative Party].

    PRIME MINISTER:

    I think the matter is now behind us, we have drawn a line in the sand, the atmosphere in the Conservative Parliamentary Party today was superb, as you would have seen, a much larger majority than anyone imagined, everyone was back in the fold. They now know that this dispute is behind us, there is lots else we want to do: we want to get on to our agenda to deal with law and order matters, the centre-piece of the next legislative programme; the economy is now beginning to grow far faster than most people imagined, figures released today indicate yet again it is growing at quite a significant rate now. So there is a lot of work that we need to do, that we want to get on to and over which the Conservative Party is absolutely united and now we will get on with that.

    QUESTION:

    [Mr Major was asked if his leadership looked under strain and also whether people would be unhappy about VAT on fuel].

    PRIME MINISTER:

    People have been saying this sort of thing for some time. They said when I went to Europe I could not negotiate this treaty, I did; they said I could not get an opt-out from the social chapter or the single currency, I did; they said I could not get this legislation through Parliament, I did.

    As far as VAT on fuel is concerned, it is not all that long ago, whenever he speaks to an environmental audience in fact, that the leader of the Liberal Party says we must end for good the anomaly of not having VAT on fuel, they are in favour of VAT on fuel, the Liberal Party, the Labour Party too are in favour of taxes of that sort. I think we need a bit more straightforwardness about this, it is no good them saying one thing when they are speaking to an environmental audience and quite something else in Christchurch or elsewhere.

  • Mr Major’s Comments on Party Unity (I) – 23 July 1993

    Below is the text of Mr Major’s comments on the unity of the Conservative Party, made during an interview held in London on Friday 23rd July 1993.


    QUESTION:

    [Mr Major was asked if the Party’s unanimous support in the vote of confidence was genuine].

    PRIME MINISTER:

    I do not think there is any doubt that the Conservative Party is united, you will have seen the atmosphere in the House throughout the day and certainly in the Division Lobbies. The European discuss that we have had, the debate, the difficulties, we have drawn a line under that in the Division Lobbies today. What we now move forward to is the agenda upon which we are wholly united – returning to the difficulties of dealing with crime matters, I am very keen to look at that in the next legislative programme, it will be the centre-piece of our programme, and also of course to return to growth in the economy where more statistics released today show yet again that the economy is growing.

    QUESTION:

    [Mr Major was asked if he had shown himself to be a weak leader].

    PRIME MINISTER:

    The Government must have its legislation, if the Government cannot carry its legislation the Government cannot stay in office. There was no doubt that there was a huge majority for the European Community’s Amendment Act, it was an act, it had been passed by Parliament, it had had Royal Assent from the Queen. What was happening was frankly an unscrupulous cross-party alliance with the Labour Party and the Liberal Party voting against what they believed in simply to embarrass the Government, that was what had caused the blockage and the difficulty, it was necessary to unblock that and that is what I did.

    QUESTION:

    [Mr Major was asked if he regretted the way he got the legislation through and also the way he made the social chapter such a large matter].

    PRIME MINISTER:

    But the social chapter would be very damaging for this country, I did not make a big issue of the social chapter, it is a big issue. Every businessman and every business lobby in this country will tell you the same thing, the social chapter may sound very benign, it does, it really is a job destruction programme. I want to put people back into work, I do not want to have them forced out of work, I simply cannot understand the enthusiasm of the Labour party and the Liberal Party for more controls, more regulation, more costs on employers and greater unemployment, that is what is would to, I want no part of that.

    QUESTION:

    [Mr Major was asked if he was referring to low-skilled jobs as Labour had suggested].

    PRIME MINISTER:

    They have produced some of the most absurd arguments I have ever heard in Parliament about this. Go and talk to the people who actually provide the jobs in this country.

    QUESTION:

    [Mr Major was asked if those in work had rights as well].

    PRIME MINISTER:

    Indeed they do and one of the rights they have is the right to keep their job and not be forced out of it by excessive costs on their employers. Ask the people who provide jobs in this country, it is not the Government, it is not the Labour Party, it is not the Liberal Party, it is the businessmen who run the large companies in this country. Ask Denys Henderson, the Chairman of ICI, one of the biggest employers in the country, he will tell you very crisply that the social charter is bad news for employment, so will every large businessman. The Labour Party may choose to say the trade unions like it, therefore we are in favour of it, but it will cost people jobs and I think that is unscrupulous.

  • Mr Major’s Commons Statement on the Maastricht Treaty – Social Policy Protocol – 23 July 1993

    Below is the text of Mr Major’s statement made in the House of Commons on the 23rd July 1993 on the Maastricht Treaty – Social Policy Protocol, following defeat the previous night. The motion was also a confidence motion in the Government.


    PRIME MINISTER:

    The Prime Minister (Mr John Major): I beg to move,

    That this House has confidence in the policy of Her Majesty’s Government on the adoption of the Protocol on Social Policy. After yesterday’s motion, the Cabinet thought it right to bring this motion immediately before the House. I said yesterday to the House that European policy had created a division in British politics for 20 years. We have seen the effects of that vividly over recent months. If asked, most people in the country would say that the House has spent most of its time in the past year doing nothing but debate the European Communities treaty. It has, indeed, been fully debated, but the House has done a great deal more. In one parliamentary Session, it has passed a large number of reforming Bills–on education, asylum, housing and urban renewal, trade union reform, and personal pensions. One third of our manifesto at the last election will have been enacted by the end of this parliamentary Session, and that is much to the advantage of the British nation.

    Most of that will have been masked from public gaze by the disputes over European policy. Not only has that legislation been passed, but, over the same period, we have moved clearly from recession to growth. It is now clear that growth prospects for the year are likely to exceed earlier forecasts.

    Those are some of the realities of what has occurred over the past year. Britain is now moving back into recovery, ready for significant sustained growth with low inflation. At the general election, that was the prescription which we promised and it is now becoming clearer day by day that that is what is being delivered to the British nation.

    Against that background, it is in our national interest that we keep up the pace of reform and the pace of recovery. Parliament must put this stalemate over Europe behind it. I am not prepared to let it poison the political atmosphere any longer. The boil must be lanced, and it must be lanced today. Therefore, I shall set out in the clearest possible terms the implication for today’s debate. We have before us a motion of confidence in the Government, with all the implications that flow from that. Lest there be any doubt in the mind of any hon. Member, the issue of confidence also extends to the Opposition’s amendment. No hon. Member should be under any misapprehension about that, even though its terms are intended to entrap the unwary. It is precisely the amendment that was defeated yesterday.

    At the conclusion of this debate, either the Government will have won the vote of confidence and we can proceed with our policy, subject to one outstanding court case, or we shall have lost and I shall seek a dissolution of Parliament.

    Mr. Tony Benn (Chesterfield): Will the Prime Minister give way?

    The Prime Minister: I shall give way to the right hon. Gentleman later. I want to make a little progress now.

    This debate is about the Government’s policy of rejecting the social chapter. I shall spell out the disadvantages so that no one can misunderstand me. Yesterday, the right hon. and learned Member for Monklands, East (Mr. Smith) quoted from the social chapter. He made it sound innocuous, harmless and even benign. If he wants to keep his blinkers on, so be it–but let Conservative Members be in no doubt about the costs and the implications of the social chapter. Measures that the Community has already brought forward, which abuse health and safety provisions, show us the scale of the costs likely to be involved in the social chapter’s provisions.

    The working time directive originally would have cost British industry £5 billion ; by our efforts, that figure has been substantially reduced. The part-time directive originally would have cost £1 billion ; largely by our efforts, that directive has been stalled. The young workers directive would cost up to £150 million. Those are just three provisions, but they add up to more than £6 billion in potential costs. I could add to that list. If the social chapter came into being, those costs would be added to for every single business in this country, with the inevitable effect on jobs.

    Even the right hon. and learned Gentleman must realise that employers would have to meet those costs, and more, under the social chapter. There would be higher prices, lost jobs and less competitiveness. That is the policy which the right hon. and learned Gentleman espouses. He may wish to indulge himself by voting for the social chapter–he has the luxury of being able to strike attitudes–but we must deal in realities. He would not have to pay the price of his attitudes. The price would be paid by millions of men and women working hard to hold down jobs, bring up families and improve their working conditions.

    At any time, the social chapter would be an unwarranted intrusion into British life; but now, just when recovery is beginning to emerge, it would put recovery at risk. If the right hon. and learned Gentleman does not want to take my word for it, perhaps he will take the word of the chairman of ICI– [Interruption.] Labour Members may choose to scoff and sneer at the chairman of ICI, but it is his company which provides jobs in their constituencies. It is the policy of Labour Members which would cost their constituents those jobs. What the chairman of ICI had to say–perhaps the Opposition would care to listen to and reflect upon it–was :

    “Continental Europe is currently in deep recession while the UK has the beginnings of an economic recovery It is … absolutely vital that business does not have imposed upon it additional costs which are unnecessary and which, in turn, could hinder the recovery.” Those are not my words, but the words of one of the most senior business men in this country.

    Does the right hon. and learned Gentleman want to hinder the recovery, or does he think that he knows more about British industry than Sir Denys Henderson, who runs ICI? Does the right hon. and learned Gentleman really want to impose the social chapter and hazard the recovery now coming through, especially the five consecutive monthly falls in unemployment? It is self-evident that that is exactly what he wishes to do. The most fatuous comment this House has heard for months was his assertion yesterday that the social chapter would create jobs, not cost them. Only in the unemployment offices would it create jobs.

    Mr. Tony Marlow (Northampton, North): What does my right hon. Friend say in response to the argument put forward by many respectable business men that if we ratify this wretched treaty but we do not have the social chapter, things will be done through the social chapter by the other 11 countries which, through other aspects of the treaty, will then be imposed on the United Kingdom? If we are not there, we cannot control and restrain them.

    The Prime Minister: I would say what many business men would have said to my hon. Friend had he asked them–that he is talking nonsense. The business men of this country have made it absolutely clear that they support ratification of the Maastricht treaty without the social chapter. I fail to understand why my hon. Friend wishes to impose extra costs on companies in his constituency of Northampton, North and put his constituents out of work. I hope that he can justify that to them.

    I repeat that the Government cannot afford to, and will not, throw away the recovery. The social chapter is a risk which we will not take.

    Mr. Benn: In making this debate a vote of confidence, the Prime Minister and other Ministers have said that if the Government lose there will be a general election. I want to ask the right hon. Gentleman a straightforward question : has he asked the Queen to grant a dissolution? Has she agreed to grant a dissolution? Has the right hon. Gentleman considered the possibility that–as has happened in the past–she might say, “It is only a new Parliament. There are other leaders who might take it on”? She might refuse a dissolution.

    The Prime Minister: I have made it perfectly clear that if we lose the Division today I will seek a dissolution of Parliament. If the Government cannot carry their business, a dissolution of Parliament would undoubtedly be granted. The fact is that yesterday a disparate group of Members, voting for different interests on the same matter, chose to defeat the Government on a matter for which there is a genuine majority in the House. I repeat that the Government regard this as an issue of confidence and we will seek the dissolution of Parliament if we are defeated today.

    Mr. A. J. Beith (Berwick-upon-Tweed): On a point of order, Madam Speaker. Is it in order for the Prime Minister, during proceedings in this House, to say that a dissolution would undoubtedly be granted, thereby appearing to put words in the mouth of the sovereign?

    Madam Speaker: It is for all hon. Members and Ministers to make their own comments, not for the Speaker of this House to interpret them or comment upon them.

    The Prime Minister: It is interesting to know in reality how unready the Liberal Democrats are for an election– [Interruption.]

    Several hon. Members rose —

    Madam Speaker: Order. I shall take a point of order.

    Mr. Peter Shore (Bethnal Green and Stepney): On a point of order, Madam Speaker. It is perfectly clear that the Prime Minister’s speech, and his whole case, is based upon what he considers to be the evils that are contained in the social chapter–a document which was issued in 1989 and was referred to in the reply to yesterday’s debate.

    From the researches of my hon. Friend the Member for Newham, South (Mr. Spearing), it emerged yesterday in a written answer that he received from a Minister that the social charter has never been presented or published by Her Majesty’s Government in Britain. Is it not the case that that charter, which is at the heart of this debate, has not been published by the Government, is not on the Table of the House, and is not in the Vote Office, so how can we proceed sensibly to consider this matter? Is it not the case that this whole debate is being conducted on hearsay and prejudice without the proper documentation being before the House?

    Madam Speaker: We are proceeding today under an Act of Parliament that has already passed through this House.

    Mr. Frank Cook (Stockton, North): On a point of order, Madam Speaker. You will recall that I spent nearly four years in the Whips Office — [Hon. Members :– “Oh.”] During that time, I was instructed not to apply any overt duress– [Laughter.] I will rephrase that, for the benefit of right hon. and hon. Members who are unable to follow the narrative. I was advised not to apply pressure or duress overtly in order to persuade my right hon. and hon. Friends to vote one way or another. I tried to obey that advice. Is not the Prime Minister’s reference to the prospect of a general election creating improper pressure on the many Conservative Members whose seats are in jeopardy?

    Madam Speaker: That is barely a point of order for me. I can tell the hon. Gentleman that I, too, was in the Whips Office, in support of a Government who did not have a majority–and I know all about duress.

    The Prime Minister: The House is full of former Whips. At this moment, Britain is uniquely placed in regard to the rest of Europe–a “paradise for investors”, as M. Delors so kindly put it. There is no doubt that Britain–with low inflation, low interest rates, competitive labour costs and competitive interest rates–has the leading edge in the marketplace in Europe. The Government have no intention of throwing away those hard-won advantages, as the social chapter would compel us to do.

    The obsession that some Opposition Members have with the social chapter is bizarre. They want more regulation and more social costs just as the rest of Europe is seeking to draw back from extra social costs. France is curbing spending on health and pensions. Holland is freezing social security benefits. Germany is cutting back unemployment assistance and job creation schemes. They are doing so because they realise that Europe must keep all its costs down to compete in the world.

    Yesterday, the right hon. and learned Gentleman spoke about competitiveness in Europe, but Europe must compete with the United States and Japan as well. All across Europe people know that Europe is losing competitiveness at present. Twenty years ago, the unemployment rate across Europe was 60 per cent. of that in the United States. Today, it is 60 per cent. above the United States. That is largely because of the extra costs that we have placed on our businesses, running their competitiveness and damaging their employment prospects.

    The Opposition may seek to make gestures and price people out of work, but the Government’s job is to put them back in work–and that is the policy which we shall follow.

    Mr. Alex Salmond (Banff and Buchan): The Prime Minister is making another knocking speech against the social chapter. The reality is that he believes that he can politically survive today only if he threatens his entire party with self-destruction in a general election campaign. Will the right hon. Gentleman tell the House how often and how long such a tactic can be successfully employed?

    The Prime Minister: The hon. Gentleman, with his curious voting pattern on Europe, represents a part of the United Kingdom which has done remarkably well out of inward investment because of our membership of the European Community–a membership which he would have done well to support in the Lobbies last night with the Government. The hon. Gentleman’s constituents will have noted how he voted.

    Mr. Seamus Mallon (Newry and Armagh): On a point of order, Madam Speaker. History shows that down the years sordid deals on the Floor of the House have cost the lives of countless people in the north of Ireland. Does not the Prime Minister have a duty today to tell the House what deal he did with the nine Ulster Unionists to buy their votes yesterday, contrary to their manifesto? Will you, Madam Speaker, also ask the Prime Minister to rule that the definition of an honest man is one who, once he has been bought, stays bought?

    Madam Speaker: The hon. Gentleman knows that those matters are not for me but for debate.

    The Prime Minister: I will clear up the matter for the hon. Gentleman so that he is left in no doubt. Nothing was asked for, nothing was offered, and nothing was given. So perhaps the hon. Gentleman would care to withdraw his remark. He might also bear in mind that unemployment in the part of the United Kingdom that he represents is very high, as he never ceases to remind the House. He, too, would make it higher, by the way that he cast his vote in the Divisions that we have had.

    Mr. Hugh Dykes (Harrow, East): I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for giving way–particularly, given his latter remarks, as I am wearing the Anglo-Irish tie. Further to his comments yesterday, which he has just repeated, does he agree that so severe has the recession become in the other European countries that, although no specific proposals for the social chapter have yet been made, when they are published in due course we shall find that they are milder than the social action programme that the Government already accept under the social dimension? May I therefore ask my right hon. Friend what all the fuss is about?

    The Prime Minister: I will tell my hon. Friend what all the fuss is about. Once we adhere to the social protocol, it will be there for good– not just for the brief period in which our partners in Europe may be wary about bringing matters forward.

    Mr. William Cash (Stafford): Given that the motion deals specifically with the adoption of the protocol on social policy, will my right hon. Friend tell me how we shall be able to go ahead with it when it is expressly excluded by the Act of Parliament that was passed last week but is included in the treaty that my right hon. Friend signed?

    The Prime Minister: I think that my hon. Friend, despite his close study of the matter, has perhaps misunderstood the domestic legislation that we have been examining. If he cares to read it more carefully–perhaps he could take some time to do so before we vote this afternoon–he will understand the whole matter a little better. The Government were elected just over a year ago with the largest popular vote in British history. It was a vote for policies for economic recovery, which we are now getting, for private enterprise, which we will sustain, and for individual freedom, which we are extending.

    Mr. John Hume (Foyle) rose–

    The Prime Minister: If the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, I have generously given way, and I wish to make some progress.

    The social chapter would put much of that at risk. What the electors did not vote for at the last election was the right hon. and learned Gentleman’s policies : increased inflation, corporatism and state intervention, a reverse of trade union reform, and craven compliance and abject surrender in the face of every regulation coming from Brussels. The right hon. and learned Gentleman and his colleagues are only too ready to advance socialism through Europe, never ready to stand up to battle for British ideas and British ideas in Europe.

    One whiff of a new regulation, a new burden or a new cost from Europe and the right hon. and learned Gentleman yelps that he wants it too. No doubt as a small boy he was avid for measles and desperate for chicken pox as well. What is more, he says, without these new burdens Britain will become a sweatshop economy. It would be a great help if, during the recess, the right hon. and learned Gentleman would go out into industry and meet some of the people who run it. What would the social chapter do to much of other parts of legislation? Gone, reluctantly and sadly in the minds of Opposition Members, are the days when the trade unions held such sway in this country. They held it to ransom month after month, year after year. Now all they hold is the right hon. and learned Gentleman to ransom, issue by issue–not the Leader of the Opposition, but the trade unions’ glove puppet when it comes to policy. The social chapter would put much of that in reverse gear. The last thing we want is a Government committed to putting union bosses back in the boardroom, and I cannot believe that the House will vote for that.

    Many countries in the European Community are now going into recession, and that is where the obsession with extra regulation would put us back as well, just as we have emerged from it. I cannot understand why the right hon. and learned Gentleman wants us to adopt the social chapter when other countries are beginning to realise its costs and burdens. As the president–

    Mr. Hume rose–

    The Prime Minister: I have given way sufficiently.

    As the president of the CBI said in The Times yesterday– [Interruption.] I know that the Opposition do not like these quotes from people who understand business but they are going to get them. He said :

    “A Commons vote tonight leading to inclusion of the social chapter in the ratified Maastricht treaty would set back the cause of common sense and competitiveness in Europe by several years.”

    The right hon. and learned Gentleman will shortly be the first Labour leader to speak to the CBI; perhaps before he goes he should start listening to the CBI, too.

    Other countries around the world are beginning to realise the effect of excessive social costs. The chairmen of our leading banks yesterday may it perfectly clear that their concern– [Interruption.] The Opposition do not care. I am talking about the people who run industry and commerce, but the Opposition do not care. They do not mind how many people are unemployed if they can salve their consciences. The chairmen made it clear that people outside, European business men, are

    “concerned about the costs and over-rigid labour and social benefit structures in their own countries, and see the social chapter as adding to this problem.”

    Only Opposition Members fail to be able to see that.

    The choice because the House today could not be clearer. The Government have opened up new opportunities for people with low inflation and for union members to have more say in their affairs, more opportunities for home owners and more opportunities for business to compete abroad. By contrast, the Opposition offer policies of opportunism, not opportunity, at every level. The right hon. and learned Gentleman said last year :

    “I do not think we should oppose the Maastricht treaty”, yet that is exactly what he did last night. He claims to be an ardent European. He said:

    “I have always believed that Britain’s future lies in Europe, and that we must take a confident and leading role in the European Community.”

    So what has the ardent European done in the last year? He voted against Second Reading of the European Communities (Amendment) Bill. He voted against Maastricht in the paving debate; he voted against Maastricht last night. What did he do on Second Reading of the Single European Act, this ardent European? He abstained. What did he do on Second Reading of the Maastricht Bill, this ardent European? He abstained. On Third Reading, the ardent European abstained. Mr. Valiant-for-Abstention–the ardent European. Perhaps, out of sheer habit, he will abstain when we come to the vote this afternoon. Some European, and some principles! As Dr. Johnson said of a man with allegedly good principles, “He does not wear them out in practice”; and neither does the right hon. and learned Gentleman. He wears his principles lightly so that he may discard them whenever convenient.

    This country cannot afford to let this stalemate on European policy continue. It is against the interests of government in this country to do so. This House must decide today whether it is prepared to sustain the Government in office or encourage me to seek a dissolution. We did not lightly bring this motion forward, but the matter could not have been left any longer. It has to be decided, and the only way to decide it is to reject the social chapter. If this country were to accept it, it would mean an end to recovery, a return to corporatism, and an end to competitiveness. That is not the way forward for this country, and I hope that the House will decisively reject it.

  • Mr Major’s Commons Statement on the Maastricht Treaty – Social Policy Protocol – 22 July 1993

    Below is the text of Mr Major’s statement made in the House of Commons on the 22nd July 1993 on the Maastricht Treaty – Social Policy Protocol.


    PRIME MINISTER:

    The Prime Minister (Mr John Major): I beg to move,

    That this House, in compliance with the requirements of section 7 of the European Communities (Amendment) Act 1993, notes the policy of Her Majesty’s Government on the adoption of the Protocol on Social Policy.

    The debate we have in the House this afternoon is without precedent. After months of discussion, Parliament has passed the European Communities (Amendment) Act with huge majorities. In this House, there was a majority of over 240 on Second Reading and of 180 on Third Reading. In the other place, there was a majority of well over 100 on Third Reading and of 269 in the showpiece vote over a referendum. Rarely in recent history has Parliament shown its will so effectively. Today’s debate is an attempt to frustrate that will. I believe that ratification of the Maastricht treaty is in the interests of this country. I negotiated the treaty because I believed that it was in the interests of this country, and that is why I signed it. That is why I refused to ditch it or to change it, even though there was plenty of opportunity to do so over the past year. Let me set out to the House the reasons why I regard it as vital for this country, for the reasons do not just relate to what is within the treaty itself, but go wider than the treaty and relate to the general position in the European Community.

    We took the decision to join the Community–the right decision, I believe–over 20 years ago. From the day we took the decision, across both sides of the House, it has often been a matter of controversy. Sometimes it has been bitter, sometimes it has flared up, and at other times, for a while, it has been quiescent. Always that schism between the parties has rested there, and it has damaged the influence that this country has been able to exercise within the European Community.

    Too often, as a result of those divisions within this House and sometimes beyond it, this country under successive Governments–I make no party point –has allowed itself and its interests to be sidelined. If it had not been for those disputes, and if we had been able to play the full part in the Community that I believe we should have done, it might not have developed in the way it has, and many of the concerns that some hon. Members have might well have been dealt with.

    In that period, we have had many successes in the Community. The British rebate was a great negotiating success. The single market was one of the greatest changes in the EC since its conception. The reform of the common agricultural policy, the enlargement of the EC–each and every one, in its own way, is a big issue that has affected every aspect of the EC. All of them were British successes.

    It shows that we can win the arguments at the European table. Despite that, we have still not exercised the influence that we should have, or shaped the EC in the fashion that was possible.

    Mr. Bob Cryer (Bradford, South): Will the Prime Minister give way?

    The Prime Minister: If the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, I wish to deal with serious matters rather than frivolous interruptions at the moment.

    Too often over the years, the dominant political attitude has been to object to the ways others have wanted to develop the EC, rather than to set out our plans, our prospects and our hopes and then fight for them to deliver the type of community that is right for this country.

    Many hon. Members are right in their opposition to the way in which the EC operates. Some of the ways that it operates need to be changed–I strongly support that. I want to see the EC reformed, as do my hon. Friends and many Opposition Members, but if we are to reform the EC, Britain must have influence in the EC. We will not have influence if we do not ratify the treaty that we have agreed after consultations in the House.

    I did not initiate the negotiations. I have made it clear that I thought that they were premature, and I said so to our partners during our negotiations. I did seek to negotiate what I believed to be the best outcome for Britain. I did so within a remit I had obtained from the House, and after seeking the views of Parliament and negotiating within them.

    I believe that, as a result of that discussion and debate within the House, it was right for me to decline to accept the social chapter–and the single currency without the express will of the House.

    I believe that the events which have followed the conclusion of the negotiations have proved that judgment to be correct. As I have told the House before, in my judgment Europe is not yet remotely ready for a single currency, and the present economic circumstances across Europe mean that it cannot afford the ambitions of the social chapter.

    The House and the Government must accept the obligations we entered into and that Parliament approved in the European Communities (Amendment) Act. There is a straightforward self-interested reason for this country why we must do that. If we fail to do that, no British Government will have influence in Europe for many years. Europe is a market of vital interest to our companies, and to this country’s future prosperity and future employment. If we wilfully throw away our capacity to defend our interests and promote our policies in that market, I believe that this country will pay a dear price for that folly in the years to come. I would ask every hon. Member–including some of my hon. Friends–to reflect deeply on that point before they vote this evening.

    Sir Russell Johnston (Inverness, Nairn and Lochaber): I am grateful to the Prime Minister for giving way. He has forcefully and clearly made the argument for our remaining within the EC in order to argue our case and develop our position. Surely the same argument exactly applies to the development of social policy. How can this country influence the development of European social policy by opting out ?

    The Prime Minister: The hon. Gentleman knows that the Government accept that there is a social dimension to the EC. We have the best implementation of the social dimension of any European country. Perhaps if Opposition Members were better informed, they would not talk such rubbish so much of the time.

    I know the hon. Gentleman’s affection for Europe, but I say to him that a good European does not accept every piece of nonsense from Brussels just because it has a European label. If we believe that the social chapter is bad for employment–and I do believe that–then it is right for us to argue against it, and to try to persuade our partners to argue against it also.

    I believe that that is what we are doing, and increasingly in Europe, businesses and employers are saying what we have said in this country and what I have said from the outset–the charter will destroy jobs across the EC.

    Mr. Tony Benn (Chesterfield): Will the Prime Minister give way?

    The Prime Minister: I should like to make a little progress. I shall give way to the right hon. Gentleman later.

    For the first time in 20 years, we are beginning to see a material move in the European Community agenda in the direction that Britain has long sought. It would be absurd for us to throw away our influence in the Community at this moment. We are seeing enlargement. We are seeing increasing moves towards the repatriation of responsibilities in this country–I hope for concrete progress on that in December. We are seeing proper budget control both within the Commission and right the way across the Community.

    The European Community will continue to develop, whatever else may happen. But we need to influence the way of that development and to see that it moves in a way that is congenial to the British interest.

    I want a wider European Community. I regard the present Community as but a fragment of Europe. That is why I wish to see the European Free Trade Association countries join, and a little later, our old friends in central and eastern Europe. The wider that we can spread the European Community, with a free market concept not only in economic terms but in military and security terms, the more we shall be able to hand a glorious bonus to the next generation that we should not throw away.

    So I want that wider Community–a free-market Community, a Europe with the minimum necessary centralisation, a Europe that exercises more powers through the elected Governments of its member states and fewer powers through unelected commissioners, a Europe in which national Governments exercise undiluted control over genuine domestic policy matters from national elections to our education system, from health care to religion. That is the sort of Community that has been our agenda for a long time, and we are beginning to make progress in encouraging others to support the development of that sort of Community.

    We seek a Community that emphasises co-operation between Governments, not imposition from the centre. We seek a Community where member states freely decide the agenda and the outcome. We seek a Community which limits common rules and the jurisdiction of the Court of Justice to matters such as free trade and free competition, where they are genuinely necessary for any level playing field to be established. That is the Community that we seek to develop and shape.

    However, we can do that only from the inside. If we are inside the Community fighting for that with allies elsewhere in the Community, we can build properly in the interests of our future. It is a process that we can take much further as a fully committed member of real influence.

    Mr. Benn: I have listened intently to the Prime Minister. Has it occurred to him that he can do the things of which he speaks only if he carries the full-hearted consent of the British people? He has the power through the House of Lords and the House of Commons, with a majority, to force the treaty through and ratify by the prerogative, but he has absolutely failed to tell the British people that they have any role in the matter, any interest in the matter or any right to determine the matter. As a result, he is carrying into the Community the establishment of Britain but not the British people. He will pay a heavy price for that, and so will the Community.

    The Prime Minister: The right hon. Gentleman has been a passionate opponent of much of the Community for many years. He has not changed his views, and I respect him for that. He spoke in the House the other day of the rights of Parliament in this House. We are a parliamentary democracy. Decisions such as that to which the right hon. Gentleman refers should properly be taken in the House, and are taken in the House.

    I do not want to see either a centralist or a federalist Europe. I mean federalist in the sense in which we refer to it, not in the sense in which other countries refer to it. They mean something different by it. Yet when I say that to some hon. Members, including some of my hon. Friends, they are apt to say to me, “What about this country or that? There are federalist countries in the Community.” That is true. There are. That is why we need influence and allies in Europe to build the sort of European Community we want.

    What is the alternative to that approach? To leave the Community? Very few right hon. or hon. Members would go into the Lobby for that proposition, today or any other day. What is the other alternative? To stand aside and let other people run the Community in a way of which we would not approve? That is hardly the right way to exercise influence in the Community.

    I have never understood why so many people who claim to be the most pro-British–whichever party is in government–have the least faith in our arguments and our capacity to prevail in the European argument.

    Mr. Cryer: This is not a frivolous point. One of the threads of the Prime Minister’s argument is that, unless we become enmeshed more deeply in Europe through the Maastricht treaty, we will not have any influence, and that the differences between political parties are inhibiting that influence.

    On one matter there has been consent between all the political parties–the common agricultural policy. It is wasteful, costly and out of control. That has not changed. The reforms that the Government have instituted are costing more. The food mountains are growing ; they are imposed on world food markets and are damaging developing nations. We have not done a thing to change it, and we cannot.

    The Prime Minister: The hon. Gentleman may say that we have not yet gone far enough, and I share that view ; I think that there are further reforms to be made to the common agricultural policy. Which way are we most likely to get them? By standing on the sidelines and throwing stones at the Community, or by being inside, seeking allies in other countries?

    There is only one way in which we could find ourselves with the centralist, federalist Europe that we do not want, and that would be to sideline ourselves, through our own efforts, and let other nations determine the future development of the Community. That would be a folly of historic proportions for the country and the House. That is why we need to seek allies in the Community, and why we need to honour our obligations and to ratify the treaty that Parliament has approved.

    The right hon. and learned Member for Monklands, East (Mr. Smith) and I do not differ on the importance of the treaty, if he stands by what he said some time ago. The right hon. and learned Gentleman said :

    “I do not think we should oppose the Maastricht Treaty.” We have seen what the right hon. Gentleman has done over recent months, and what he will seek to do this evening. But it is a matter of huge importance to this country that we honour the obligation that we entered into after consulting the House, and then continue to build the Community that we wish to see.

    Mr. Dafydd Wigley (Caernarfon): The Prime Minister emphasised a moment ago that we are a parliamentary democracy. Notwithstanding his own feelings and those of his Cabinet on the social chapter, if the House decides to support the Opposition amendment in favour of the social chapter, will the Prime Minister, as a democrat, accept that resolution and implement it?

    The Prime Minister: I expect that the will of the House will be to support the Government. If by some mischance that were not to be the case, we would make our position clear at the conclusion of today’s business.

    Mr. Michael Lord (Suffolk, Central): My right hon. Friend knows that, for many years, I have opposed the social chapter because of the effect that it would have on companies such as ICI in Stowmarket, which is in my constituency. I urge the Prime Minister to continue to oppose the social chapter as strongly as he can. I will be voting against the social chapter and in support of the Government in the Lobby tonight. [Interruption.]

    The Prime Minister: I hope that the gesture of the hon. Member for Durham Central (Mr. Lord) referred to ICI. ICI is one of the biggest employers in the country– [Interruption.] –and provides jobs in the constituencies of many of the hon. Members who are shouting at me. Its chairman, Sir Denys Henderson, has said :

    “The Prime Minister is right to seek ratification of the Maastricht Treaty and, equally, it is vital that he continues to insist on the Social opt-out provision which he successfully negotiated last year.”

    That is the view of a business man whose company will employ many thousands of people in the constituencies of many hon. Members who are contemplating voting for the amendment.

    Mr. Derek Enright (Hemsworth) rose–

    The Prime Minister: I should like to make a little progress, if the hon. Gentleman will forgive me.

    The Opposition amendment seeks to impose the social chapter on us. I believe that it would be profoundly damaging to jobs and growth in this country, as do business men–although, having quoted Sir Denys Henderson, I will not detain the House with a large number of other quotes that I could offer to that effect.

    There is no true majority for the social chapter in the House. It is wholly opposed by those who understand the economic damage that it would cause. There is an alliance of Members, for differing reasons, who may seek to come together and vote for the amendment, but it is not an alliance based on any conviction whatever.

    My hon. Friends are aware of the deficiencies of the social chapter, yet I know that some of them are tempted to vote for the Labour amendment or against the substantive motion. They do not believe in it, but they have convinced themselves that it will prevent ratification of the Act.

    Other hon. Members may have considered voting in a similar way. They, too, know and understand in many cases the damage of the amendment. They do not want more unemployment and they do not want a more centralist Community. I hope that those Members will reflect again on the cynicism of such a vote, and on the damage that it will do to this country.

    Parliament is no longer debating the merits of the Maastricht Bill. The Bill is now an Act and, in due course, the treaty will be ratified. What Parliament is debating is whether we should negotiate a new treaty to add Britain to the social agreement. The treaty in the Maastricht Bill–the European Communities (Amendment) Bill–is now law, as the House well understands. Royal Assent has been given to the Act, so the treaty will be ratified. Seventy-one separate votes in favour of the Bill should not be frustrated by one parliamentary motion expressing an opinion to the contrary.

    The House knows that to vote for the Labour amendment today is a cynical and unscrupulous vote which does not represent the true will of the House. It is an alliance of different parties with different interests, voting for the same amendment for different purposes. In any genuine free-standing vote in the House, the social chapter would be defeated, as any Member of the House knows. As the right hon. Gentleman the leader of the Liberal Democrat party has said : “The social chapter opens the way to European- wide collective bargaining arrangements. They are wrong for this country’s future and contrary to the Liberal party’s belief in decentralising wage bargaining. It is an approach that failed in the 1970s and one that could not work in the 1990s. It is too costly, too inflexible and too rigid”–

    Mr. John Carlisle (Luton, North): I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for giving way. Perhaps he would like to know the facts that made me change my mind and support the Government tonight. A manufacturing company in my constituency has interests in Europe but is now considering closing down those interests because the costs imposed by the social chapter, and will be bringing those jobs back into this country and into my constituency. On that basis, my right hon. Friend will appreciate that there was no way that I could support the treaty chapter.

    The Prime Minister rose–

    Sir Peter Tapsell (East Lindsey): May I congratulate the Prime Minister on his latest convert?

    The Prime Minister: I am always delighted to accept a sinner returning home. I am delighted to see my hon. Friend the Member for Luton, North (Mr. Carlisle) back supporting the Government. The Opposition amendment is a stratagem by an Opposition who have lost their principled concern for the Community. They are seeking solely to embarrass the Government, and a small number of Back Benchers want to obstruct the treaty. Anyone who is concerned with the interests of this country would regard the attitude of the official Opposition as incomprehensible, and that of the Liberal party, given its previous statements, as, frankly, contemptible.

    Mr. Paddy Ashdown (Yeovil): Since the Prime Minister has for, if I recall, the third or fourth time quoted my words–incidentally, quoted words that were uttered before the treaty was signed–may I say to him that his speech so far has been a most passionate and, if I may say so, effective statement about why it is important to be inside European institutions helping to shape them, not outside suffering from them.

    I do not understand how the speech that he has given so far, which is about being included in European institutions, can be used to justify an opt-out from European institutions. It is entirely true that my party and I have reservations about the social chapter, just as the Prime Minister has reservations about the Maastricht treaty, but he has argued that it is in our country’s interests to be inside the treaty changing them, not outside complaining about them. What applies to the Maastricht treaty also applies to the social chapter. If the Prime Minister genuinely believes that Britain’s interests are served by being within Europe shaping its institutions, why is he recommending to the House that we should be outside complaining and suffering from them?

    The Prime Minister: I recall going fishing many years ago when somebody caught an eel. “My,” they said, “look how it wriggles.” Wriggle though the right hon. Gentleman may, the quotes that I have used support my case and not his–as, since the right hon. Gentleman tempts me, does this one :

    “The action Labour is taking will prolong Britain’s uncertainties about Europe, delay inward investment, delay sterling recovery and lose jobs. I am not going to vote for Labour for one night of fun at the Government’s expense and ask the British people to pay in more lost jobs.”

    Does the right hon. Gentleman still believe that or not?

    Mr. Ashdown: Yes, the right hon. Gentleman, and his party, believe that. I remind the Prime Minister that, were it not for the votes of our party, there would be no Maastricht treaty before the House. I remind him that our position was then, as it is today, that, if it is a question of ratification of the treaty, there is no doubt where our votes stand, but this is a question of whether Britain shall be inside the social chapter of the treaty or outside. Our view consistently has been that we should be inside, and we shall express that view tonight.

    The Prime Minister: The right hon. Gentleman has just made a statement of immense significance, for he and his party were asking earlier about the will of the House. If the Labour amendment is defeated and the main motion is now laid before the House, the only conclusion from what the right hon. Gentleman has just said is that he will be in the Government Lobby on the main motion. That is what the right hon. Gentleman has just said, and I invite him to intervene again if he wants to correct me.

    Mr. Ashdown: Let me make it clear to the Prime Minister that, if the circumstances he describes arrive tonight, we shall continue to vote to express our wish that the social chapter should provide benefits to Britain and to Britain’s work force, which has nothing to do with ratification of the Maastricht treaty, as the Prime Minister knows full well.

    The Prime Minister: The right hon. Gentleman becomes more ludicrous by the intervention. By that time, the amendment will have been lost. The party that talks about the will of the House, within seconds of having seen that amendment lost, would seek not to vote with the logic of its argument. How like a Liberal. Usually it takes a day for them to change their minds; this time it is rather quicker.

    Mr. Simon Burns (Chelmsford): I am grateful to my right hon. Friend. If he thinks back to the story of the young boy fishing, does he recall that not only is an eel “one that wriggles”, but that eels are excessively slippery? [Laughter.]

    The Prime Minister: This is becoming more fun than I had imagined.

    Mrs. Teresa Gorman (Billericay): Does my hon. Friend agree that, notwithstanding what might happen if we were to adopt the social chapter, this country’s experience with the European Community has taught us that it has many ways of destroying jobs? That is shown by the fishing industry, which is practically on its knees, and by the meat processing industry–the latest to be decimated by European regulations.

    During all the years that I have run a small business and other firms have come to me with their problems, European regulations have consistently destroyed jobs in this country. The idea that we will be able to control the European Community’s imposition of those regulations on employers in this country is pie in the sky, and the triumph of hope over experience.

    The Prime Minister: In that case, my hon. Friend should be in the Lobby against the social chapter this evening. As a small business woman, my hon. Friend will know that 60 per cent. of our exports go to the European Community, and that a massive amount of inward investment comes to every part of this country partly because of our membership of the European Community.

    Let me turn directly to the social chapter. Through qualified majority voting–not unanimity–the Community would have the power to determine social and working conditions. The social chapter would allow the Community to restrict part-time work, whether or not we agreed in this House. It could set a rigid framework for rules and conditions of employment, which would replace the rules developed in this country, and few areas, if any, would be exempt. Trade unions across Europe could forge deals and translate them into Community law, over the heads of individual workers and without the involvement of the British Parliament.

    Mr. Ashdown rose —

    The Prime Minister: I will spare the House another quotation from the right hon. Member for Yeovil (Mr. Ashdown). Above all, the social chapter would mean that many who are now employed would be likely to become unemployed. Many without jobs would stay without jobs. The main right that workers would get would be the right to become unemployed.

    I strongly support our membership of the Community, but I support a Community which does not intrude into areas that are properly the domain of the member states. That, I believe, is what the social chapter does. There is already concern across the House, not just on the Conservative Benches, at the Commission’s attempts to use health and safety powers for social legislation. We will oppose any abuse of those powers. We shall, if necessary, challenge the Commission’s legal base–as we are doing over the working time directive. In the social protocol, through the opt-out that I negotiated with the consent of the House and a massive majority to do so, I have preserved the right of the House to decide. Yet, in the amendment to the Government’s motion, the Opposition seek to remove that right. They are supported by the Liberal Democrats. On the social chapter, as on defence, value added tax and much else, the Liberal Democrats say one thing and do another. They change their principles from doorstep to doorstep, week to week and issue to issue.

    This week, the hon. Members for Holborn and St. Pancras (Mr. Dobson) and for Truro (Mr. Taylor) were both parroting the facile proposition that, without the social chapter, Britain would have a sweatshop economy. Good slogan; rotten argument. The Labour party says it. So does the Liberal party, naturally. That is nothing surprising–they are usually indistinguishable, and usually both wrong.

    The truth is that Britain has the best health and safety record in Europe, the best occupational pension scheme in Europe and the best system for caring for vulnerable people in Europe. Rather than talking such nonsense, the hon. Member for Holborn and St. Pancras should talk to business and learn what he is talking about. Business knows that the Community must compete or contract. If we add to social costs, we will not compete and we shall contract. We shall lose jobs in the short term and the long term. The one certain impact of the social chapter is that jobs will be lost and unemployment will be worse. That is what is at stake.

    Is it worth it? Go and ask our industrialists. Will it help them to grow? Will it pay high wages? Will it guarantee jobs? Ask good investors whether the social chapter will attract them to Britain. Listen to the Confederation of British Industry, the Engineering Employers Federation, the British chambers of commerce and the Institute of Directors–every single British organisation. They know that playing games on the social chapter is a dangerous game with the British economy. Everyone knows, except Opposition Members who would impose those burdens on British industry and the British work force.

    Uncertainty about Britain’s commitment to the Community is damaging to the country. It would undermine our standing, our influence and our national interests. That uncertainty undoubtedly will arise if Parliament does not now implement the Act that we have approved in Parliament. It must clear the way for the treaty that I signed at Maastricht. I believe that the treaty embodies the genuine will of a parliamentary majority, not the will of a coalition of disparate minorities simply to obstruct.

    As the right hon. Member for Copeland (Dr. Cunningham) said : “we should not consort with people who are just completely, fundamentally anti the European Community.”

    I hope that he stands by that.

    During the past few years, Britain has had an increasingly strong voice in the Community. As never before, we have influenced its future direction. So long as we remain a fully committed member, we can have an even stronger voice in the future.

    That does not mean accepting everything wanted by our partners. It means being in there in the Community; arguing, debating, shaping the future of our Community and carrying alliances with us. Europe is beginning to move in our direction. In France, in Germany and in Britain, a large majority looks not to a super-state, not to a united states of Europe, but to a Europe of nation states. Those states co-operate closely and enjoy a single market embracing 340 million people, but they retain their identity and sovereignty.

    Mr. Nicholas Winterton (Macclesfield): My right hon. Friend will know of my strong opposition to and reservations about the Maastricht treaty. I have been greatly encouraged by what he has said about how he envisages Europe’s future and the influence that he can bring to bear on Europe from within Europe. In his speech this afternoon, will my right hon. Friend help me by assuring the House and me that this country will not move towards a single currency and return to the exchange rate mechanism as long as he is in power? Will he assure us that we in this country, who are proud of our sovereignty, integrity and place in the world, will be able to continue to have control over our foreign and security policies?

    The Prime Minister: I have repeatedly said to the House on a number of occasions that I do not envisage that we shall be able to move towards a single currency–a matter on which the House makes the decisions–in anything remotely like the time scale previously set out. That is increasingly becoming the view of other people. As my right hon. and learned Friend the Chancellor has said on several occasions, there is no prospect of our returning to the exchange rate mechanism in the near future, as the conditions are simply not right. I do not envisage that they will be right for some considerable period of time.

    Britain’s interests demand that we play a leading part in the Community. Common sense demands that we retain the freedom of action which I secured in signing the social protocol. That is why the Government are determined to ratify the treaty I signed and to oppose last-ditch efforts to delay or distort it. It is a matter of national interest that we proceed in that fashion, and it is upon that basis that I ask the House to put aside and reject the Opposition amendment, and to adopt the motion.