Category: Prime Minister (1990-1997)

  • Mr Major’s Doorstep Interview in London – 23 February 1996

    Below is the text of Mr Major’s doorstep interview in London on Friday 23rd February 1996.


    QUESTION:

    Prime Minister, what is your reaction this morning to Mr Thurnham’s resignation?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    Well I am surprised, to be honest. I had a lengthy conversation with Peter and Sarah last evening and we had a very friendly conversation, a very amiable conversation and we were going to meet again next week. So I am a little surprised, I don’t quite know what happened after I finished my meeting with him.

    QUESTION:

    What will this mean for the debate on Monday on Scott?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    I don’t know that it makes any difference to the debate at all on Monday, I wasn’t sure what Peter was going to do, I don’t know what Peter is going to do now, but I expect that we will win the vote on Monday.

    QUESTION:

    Are you confident that you can win that vote?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    Yes, I think we will win the vote on Monday.

    QUESTION:

    And will you ensure that there is indeed a division on that subject?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    It is not for me to ensure there is a division, I think the Opposition will probably ensure there is a division and I think we can rely upon them to do that. There is a capability for division. If the Opposition are entirely satisfied and don’t wish to divide, that is a matter for them.

    QUESTION:

    Is there a danger now, as Sir Teddy Taylor was saying this morning, of an election before the end of the year?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    I don’t believe so. I have always expected to go through to the spring of 1997 and I still expect to go through to the spring of 1997.

    QUESTION:

    This has been described as a betrayal by his own Constituency Association people, do you feel betrayed by what he has done?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    Peter will have worked very closely with his constituency and his constituency will have worked very closely with him and very hard for him over the years, so I can understand that people feel very worried about this. I don’t think that is the sort of language that I am in the business of using. Peter has been a parliamentary colleague for a very long time. I am very saddened and disappointed at his decision. I am not quite sure what temporarily resigning the Whip means, but I am sure Peter will be in touch to say what it means.

    QUESTION:

    Is your door still open to him to come back?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    My door is open to every Member of Parliament almost all the time, I spend a lot of time talking to Members of Parliament.

    PRIME MINISTER:

    Are you concerned about further defections?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    I am not expecting any.

    QUESTION:

    What would you say to any Tories who may be considering doing something similar?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    I don’t think there are any, so I don’t think the situation arises.

    QUESTION:

    On Ireland, you will be seeing George Mitchell today, we understand you have had a number of meetings in the last 24 hours, are you hoping that the peace process in a meaningful way can be put back together in the next few days, with a summit perhaps?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    I have said repeatedly that I am not prepared to give up on the process, neither is John Bruton. We had a further conversation this morning. As you say, I will be seeing George Mitchell later on today, that is not to negotiate, it is to discuss what has happened and to update him on our thinking. And then I expect to be speaking to the Taoiseach again over the weekend. We are working towards a summit, we are not going to call a summit until we have done some further work. There is a huge amount of discussion and negotiation going on at the moment.

    QUESTION:

    Do you think you will meet him before you go to Bangkok?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    It would be my hope to meet him before we go to Bangkok, I can’t be certain that that will be the case but that would be my wish if it is achievable.

    QUESTION:

    Sinn Fein were saying last night that the package that appears to be being put together, they were interested in and certainly wanted to look at. Do you feel that there is any realistic prospect at this stage that they can be brought back in, from what you are hearing?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    From what we have heard from Sinn Fein in the past, there ought never to have been a breach of the ceasefire. So I am a little sceptical about what I hear Sinn Fein saying, I think it is actions from now on we will wish to see from Sinn Fein and the IRA. I think we would be cautious about any words, we have been in the past, we now have every reason to be more cautious. It is actions we will wish to see from them. But we will continue and I hope we will be able to have a summit before the European Union/Asia Conference in Bangkok. I cannot be certain about that yet, and neither can John Bruton be certain about that. If we can achieve it, we will.

    QUESTION:

    What would Sinn Fein have to do, in your view, to get back into the process?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    These are matters that will become apparent over the next few days. Let us finish the discussions we are having and then we will make it quite clear.

  • Mr Major’s Questions and Answers at the WEU Assembly – 23 February 1996

    Below is the text of Mr Major’s questions and answers session following his speech to the Western European Union (WEU) Assembly, held in London on Friday 23rd February 1996.


    QUESTION (Mr Naulius, Estonia):

    Mr. Prime Minister, thank you for sharing with us your vision about European security in future and also for your support for enlargement of the European Union and spreading stability and prosperity to the East. However, for smaller associate partners like the Baltic States their own future is of primary concern and therefore I would ask what is the United Kingdom’s position on NATO and western European enlargement concerning the Baltic States or how do you it is possible to increase security in the area of the Baltic States and the whole Baltic Sea area in this context?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    There are many aspects to that question. Let me try and take as many of them as I credibly can.

    As far as NATO enlargement is concerned, I am in favour of NATO enlargement. I think we have to take it at a practical level. I re-emphasise the point I made a few moments ago: enlargement of NATO is not a one-way option; enlargement of NATO is an obligation for NATO to the new country and it is an obligation for the new country when it joins NATO, so there is a twin obligation there so I think we will take NATO enlargement steadily but securely. The order in which NATO will enlarge I think is a matter yet to be determined, I don’t think there can be any immediate progress over the next few months but I hope towards the end of this year we can begin to look seriously, after we have examined the practicalities of enlargement which are enormous, at what sort of order the enlargement will come in and I think we can say no more about that on this occasion.

    As far as the western European Union is concerned, we have of course, including the Baltic States, an associate partnership position at present. What is the best way to develop that?

    The associate partner status is unique in the Western European Union and the purpose of it is to give the Central Europeans and indeed the Baltic States a direct involvement in the work of the organisation. I think we can make a good deal more of that than we have thus far.

    What we are looking to explore is ways of involving the associate partners more directly in the operational work of WEU. We have work such as mine-clearing, work in Bosnia. I think absorbing increasingly the associate partners into that element of work is the first step. Beyond that, I think it is for the Western European Union to look at the question of further enlargement and I for one would wish to put no impediment in front of that but the first option I think is to increase the absorption of the associate partners not just in conferences and assemblies but in the practical work, including the military work that we hope increasingly is going to be done by the Western European Union.

    QUESTION (Mr Van der Linden, The Netherlands):

    I would like to ask the Prime Minister whether he agrees that in order to conduct an irreversible process in Europe as was referred to by Federal Chancellor Kohl, we must have a European common defence policy which in the long term must ultimately be part and parcel of the European Union. We cannot have a European political union without defence being a part of that union. May I ask the Prime Minister for his reaction?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    I think I gave my reaction a few moments ago to that. The British are a very large part of the European defence component in NATO and in the Western European Union. I have to say to colleagues here present that when British troops are on active service I cannot conceive that they would be subordinated to anything other than the British Cabinet in the United Kingdom. I don’t see that there is a circumstance that I can foresee in which the determination and decision-making about British troops in action is going to be available to the European Union or the European Parliament, I cannot foresee that being accepted by this British Government or any other conceivable British Government. I don’t know what time-scale other people have their ambitions in, I tend to deal in practical slabs of time and I cannot foresee at any stage in the future as I see it that we are likely to reach a position in which British troops would have their effective decisions taken for them by the European Union rather than by the British Government, I do not believe that would be acceptable to the British Parliament, it would not be acceptable to me, I cannot believe it would be acceptable to any other British Government and I do not believe it will happen.

    QUESTION (Mr Jack Thompson, United Kingdom)

    Prime Minister, first of all may I make a remark about your comments earlier about the role of the WEU and say that as far as I am aware, the British Parliament, not only the British Government, supports your view on the role of the WEU so there is unanimity in the British Parliament.

    Bearing in mind that in the United States we are running up to presidential elections, there is a Congress which tends to be rather isolationist these days and the situation in the former Yugoslavia is moving into a time I understand when at the end of this year the Americans are saying they are going to pull out of there. As Britain has the chairmanship of the Council of the Western European Union, what role do you think the WEU can play in terms of former Yugoslavia post the Americans leaving, if they do?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    On the first part of your comments, Jack, let me thank you for what you had to say. I think it is always good for all our colleagues in Europe and elsewhere to see on very vital issues there is often cross-party agreement in the House of Commons and I am grateful to you for endorsing the fact that as far as the Western European Union is concerned that is one of those occasions. I think it is useful that our colleagues realise that that is the position on such a fundamentally important issue.

    As far as the Implementation Force in Yugoslavia is concerned, it is the general expectation that the force collectively would be able to leave by the end of the year. I don’t think the concept of the Americans leaving unilaterally is one that is acceptable to the other European partners and I think the Americans would understand that when the time came. We hope that we will be able to have had the work done by the end of the year; I very much hope that that is the case. If the work isn’t done, then we will have to examine what needs to be done to ensure that the work can be done but I do not foresee it being a position that the Americans would unilaterally leave; that is not the basis upon which other troops from Europe are presently serving in the former Yugoslavia either from the United Kingdom or from other countries so I hope the circumstance will not arise.

    QUESTION (Mr Parisi, Italy):

    At a summit held on 6 December 1995, a joint declaration was issued on the WEU within the context of European security at the end of the Italian presidency and the beginning of the British one. What progress has been made in order to apply this joint declaration and has the Ministerial Council of the WEU approved a document referring to WEU’s contribution to the IGC where there are at least three alternative options? Minister of Defence, Mr. Portillo, last December at a WEU meeting said that the British Government considered the debate on this matter as closed within the WEU as this has become within the frame of competence of the IGC. Does the Government then consider that it is easier to arrive at a compromise in future between the 15 members of the European Union rather than the 10 of the WEU?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    The last part of your question sounded as though it was coming from a blizzard somewhere on the other side of Venus so I am not entirely sure what the last part of your question was but let me deal with the general points.

    For some time, Britain has had extremely good defence cooperation with Italy. You mentioned a particular declaration in Florence, I can think of other occasions over the last few years where we have agreed bilaterally with Italy certain matters on the question of defence. As far as how those are developing, we are seeking to develop them as rapidly as possible. There are a whole series of elements in the agreement that was announced to which you refer some time ago, some are now in the process of being implemented, some are not, there is still some way further to go.

    As far as the last part of your question is concerned, with your President’s permission, if you would like to repeat the last part I will try and answer it. It was quite impossible to hear on the translation.

    QUESTION:

    Thank you, Prime Minister. I was referring to the fact that the British Defence Minister, Mr Portillo, last December at the WEU Assembly said that the British government considers that the debate on constitutional matters is close within the WEU whilst the matter will be referred to the IGC. Do you think that the British government is tending towards a compromise which is easier to deal with the 15 European Union countries or is it easier to do this within the 10 member countries of the WEU?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    No, I think the point that Michael Portillo was seeking to make is a reflection of what I was saying a few moments ago, that we do not wish to see the Western European Union subordinated to the European Union in its decision-making capability. Of course the WEU must work very closely with our European Union partners, we agree with that. But the point that Michael was seeking to make was that we don’t want institutional changes that subordinate the decision-making process of the Western European Union to the European Union with obvious future knock-on implications for the Western European Union Assembly and its relations with the European Parliament. That would have been the point that Michael Portillo was seeking to make. We do not favour unhappy changes to the Western European Union.

    QUESTION (Leader of French Delegation to Assembly):

    The Brussels Commission has made proposals with regard to establishing a Common Market for armaments. Is it the best body to do that and is the British government prepared to participate, given the concentration of the American output in armaments?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    When it comes to European armaments, the UK defence industry of course is a very major player, amongst the most important in Europe. So we are well attuned already to the benefits of collaboration with our European partners. And we see obvious benefits in extending this cooperation in the form of the European armaments agency, self-evidently that is the case. So we would certainly support continuing work in the Western European armaments group towards that particular end. What we do not see, of course is the European armaments agency simply existing as a body to prevent armaments purchases from elsewhere. There are occasions where a particular weapon is particularly suitable for a particular need, and if it comes from the United States we would buy it from the United States, if it comes from Europe we would buy it from Europe. But that there are undoubted advantages in cooperation and coordination of what our weapons actually fire – it is ridiculous that some of our guns in Western Europe fire different sorts of bullets, that our mortars are different, that our gun barrel sizes are different on heavy weapons, a whole series of things where there is a great deal of coordination that could and should take place. We are very much in favour of that and we see great advantage in the European armaments agency, but not as a protectionist model.

    QUESTION (Mr Pavlidos, Greece):

    First of all, I would like to congratulate you for the speech you have made to us this morning. And I think you have led us to believe even more strongly that the Western European Union can play an important role in developing security matters in Europe. However, very recently we have seen on two occasions that whenever a crisis breaks out, for example in former Yugoslavia, and just a few days ago in the Aegean, and I am referring to the now famous islet of Imia, and of course I am talking about an area which has very close historic links with your country, I am talking about the area of the Dodecanese and the period of British administration between 1945 and 1947, before you handed those islands, including Imia, over to Greece. And in this crisis we have seen again that Europe did not intervene. I would be interested to hear your views on the subject. How do you see European organisations intervening in such incidents and such cases when there is a threat to Europe’s borders, and I would be grateful if you could state for us what role you think your country could play in such incidents?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    The two incidents you mentioned, of course, are of a different dimension. But I understand what impels you to link them. On former Yugoslavia, Europe as a whole has had a good deal of media criticism for the way it reacted. Some of that criticism is justified, I have to say a good deal of it is not justified. If the Europeans had not acted as they did, one forgets the beginning of the dispute in former Yugoslavia, I remember very plainly the nightmare we had at the beginning of the former Yugoslavia, the nightmare we had was that the dispute would move southwards to Kosovo and beyond and that we would drag in the areas beyond and that we would have a full scale Balkan war. That was the fear at the beginning and I think some of the European nations, and since you ask for the role of Britain, I think from memory we were the first actually to send troops there to try and damp down the difficulties and prevent the danger that then existed of the dispute moving to the south and beginning to involve other nations. So we did act very speedily. I recall coming back from my European holiday as it happens, I think I was in Portugal, in order to make the decision to send British troops there, and as I say I think that was the first. So that was the role we took because we saw the danger.

    I think Europe has learned a lot about cooperation as a result of what actually happened in former Yugoslavia. The only point of difference that I have with some of my European colleagues is that I believe we have to do these things by a better mechanism for cooperation, rather than by centralising a decision-making process within the European Union. That we should cooperate, I am very much in support of. That we should have a common foreign and security policy, I very much agree. What I do not agree is that that common foreign and security policy should be centrally determined against the wishes of major players. They cannot ask any European troops, against the wishes of their sovereign government, to do something and in practice I don’t think it would work. So we have to build on the common foreign and security policy and improve it. And in many of the European matters I think the mechanism of the Western European Union is also an appropriate mechanism to use. That is precisely why we want to improve its operational capability during the period of the British Presidency and immediately afterwards. We think the Western European Union can become a much more effective European arm of NATO than it is at present and we ate keen to give it the assistance that it needs to ensure that it can do so.

    As far as the second incident that you mentioned, the now famous Isle of Imia, I think it was more a matter for diplomatic intervention than military intervention and certainly that is an area where there is a European Union member involved where I think diplomacy can play a considerable role. And we will have some proposals to make at the Intergovernmental Conference as to how that might be improved. Our position will be to make some positive proposals in that respect and to try and persuade our European partners that we can improve the cooperation of European common and foreign policy by agreement.

  • Mr Major’s Speech to the WEU Assembly – 23 February 1996

    Below is the text of Mr Major’s speech to the Western European Union (WEU) Assembly, held in London on Friday 23rd February 1996.


    PRIME MINISTER:

    Mr President, Ambassadors, Ladies and Gentlemen;

    It is rare for a British Prime Minister to address a fellow British politician as Mr President. So I offer my congratulations to my friend and parliamentary colleague, Sir Dudley Smith.

    It is equally rare for a Prime Minister – of any nationality – to welcome such a distinguished body of Parliamentarians to his country. So I am delighted to welcome the WEU Assembly to London today.

    The United Kingdom currently holds the Presidency of the Western European Union. But our associations with the WEU go back a long way.

    Britain was a founding member.

    – London played host to the organisation for nearly forty years.

    – And Britain helped to reactivate the WEU in the mid 1980s.

    The UK’s commitment to the WEU reflects a deeper impulse too. It stems from our basic commitment to security and stability – in Europe, and beyond.

    No country can build its security alone. As Winston Churchill said at one very difficult moment in Anglo-American relations during the Second World War: “there is only one thing worse than fighting with Allies: and that is fighting without them.”

    By any measure, Britain more than pulls its weight.

    We have – like our Allies – restructured our armed forces following the end of the Cold War. We’ve done so in response to the fall of the Berlin Wall, the scrapping of the Warsaw Pact, the implementation of the CFE Treaty, the implosion of the former Soviet Union and the consequent reduction and reform in Russia’s armed forces, and the building of new, cooperative arrangements between states that were former adversaries.

    Throughout these changes we have continued to plan for an uncertain world, so that our new front-line matches up to the new challenges. Our emphasis has been on mobility, flexibility and rapid reaction. All attributes needed now more than ever. I suspect you will find that much the same thinking lies behind the important proposals for the reform of the French armed forces which President Chirac announced last night.

    Meanwhile, we have taken an axe to unnecessary overheads and bureaucracy, eliminating those tasks that did not need to be done, and ensuring that those essential tasks that remained could be done in the most efficient way. By 1998/9 this will be saving us over £1 billion a year. Nonetheless, we remain one of the highest spenders on defence in Europe, in both absolute and per capita terms.

    What is more, we have concentrated these resources where they matter – on the front line. At the teeth. Let me give you an illustration. We have for instance been able to acquire an entirely new capability – Tomahawk missiles for our submarines.

    At the same time, we have placed an increasing emphasis on “Joint” activity, with the closest inter-action and cooperation between the three Services. They train as they will fight together.

    There is a perception that reductions in the defence budget since the end of the Cold War must mean a reduction too in the capabilities of our armed forces. That is not true. Our armed forces have never been better equipped than they are today. To give you just on example, the Royal Navy’s latest frigate, the Type 23, has a crew almost 30 per cent smaller than its equivalent in the 1970s. But its radar and other sensors, helicopter and missiles all have ranges and capabilities several times their predecessors.

    In short, we have:

    – adapted our force structure to the new international security environment, and increased our operational efficiency by concentrating on mobility, flexibility and rapid reaction;

    – concentrated resources where they matter: on the front line, at the sharp end;

    – improved inter-service operability.

    Britain’s armed forces have brought their qualities to bear repeatedly in support of peace and freedom around the world: repelling Argentine aggression in the Falklands: helping to restore sovereignty to Kuwait: keeping the peace in Cyprus and Mozambique: today working to secure a new peace in Bosnia.

    A snapshot taken last year would have shown Britain as the largest single contributor to United Nations peacekeeping operations around the world.

    Our contribution to the Implementation Force in Bosnia involves some 13,000 personnel – a much greater effort, in terms of population, GDP or as a fraction of our armed forces, than any other nation has been able to make. To put that in perspective, more than 10 per cent of our land army is now serving in Bosnia.

    It is because we take our own responsibilities seriously that Britain cares so much about the future of the security institutions we belong to. So we are honoured to hold the Presidency of the WEU for the first half of this year. And I am glad that you have chosen to devote this meeting to the treatment of defence issues at the Inter-Governmental Conference.

    I have one simple objective for Britain’s Presidency of the WEU and for the IGC: defence and security arrangements for Europe that work:

    – that are credible and practical;

    – that our citizens can rely on.

    The hard test is whether we can put in place arrangements capable of responding, not just to a desire for bureaucratic or institutional tidiness, but to the real security challenges that we shall face in the years ahead.

    An American President once said that “the purpose of foreign policy is not to provide an outlet for our own sentiments of hope or indignation, it is to shape real events in a real world.”

    The same is true in defence. Institutional blueprints may look pretty on paper but, as any soldier will tell you, they don’t offer much protection when the shells start flying.

    So what are the challenges? I see three key tasks.

    First, maintaining effective military forces.

    The end of the Cold War does not mean that we no longer need to be ready to defend ourselves and to keep the Atlantic community together. For Britain, collective defence through NATO remains the best way of doing both.

    Second, creating a Europe whole and free.

    That means extending to the East the stability and prosperity that we have for so long taken for granted in western Europe, whilst guarding against the appearance of new divisions.

    Third, promoting security elsewhere in the region and the world.

    History, culture and trade bind Europe to virtually all parts of the globe: from the Mediterranean to the Far East, from Africa to Latin America.

    These three key tasks are a formidable agenda. What are the instruments we need? First and foremost, NATO.

    NATO and the American presence in Europe remain the bedrock of our common security. We must keep the Alliance strong, both for collective defence and for new operations, such as IFOR, where we need US troops beside us on the ground. We draw new strength from France’s decision to participate more fully in NATO, a decision which I welcome most warmly.

    The Alliance also has a major role to play in extending stability to the East. The Partnership for Peace launched in January 1994 is central to this. Military cooperation under PfP is beginning to reduce the misunderstandings that breed insecurity.

    – It is bringing former adversaries together in joint operations.

    – 14 out of the 27 PfP countries have contributed personnel to IFOR. As Javier Solana said in Munich this month, the operation could be described as the most ambitious PfP exercise ever conceived.

    NATO has agreed that, for some countries, participation in PfP will lead ultimately to membership of the Alliance. That is a commitment. But while we move steadily towards decisions on the “who and when” of enlargement, we should remember too that enlargement is not a panacea. Enlargement will not cover all countries or meet all security needs.

    Every new country joining NATO means a huge new commitment on their part, and on the part of NATO. It is a military alliance, not a debating society.

    It will certainly not be a free lunch.

    So the process needs to be handled soberly and transparently, as one powerful tool among others for building the larger and safer Europe that we seek.

    We need to reinforce Europe’s contribution to the Atlantic Alliance. More effective European participation can only strengthen NATO as a whole. We should consider IFOR as a model for the future: almost two thirds of the Implementation Force’s troops are European.

    But sometimes Europe can shoulder the burden more directly, by mounting smaller-scale operations ourselves. NATO Heads of Government paved the way for this as long ago as January 1994, when they agreed the Combined Joint Task Force concept. We need now to put in place machinery for the political control and planning of such operations.

    The WEU is uniquely well qualified to fill this role. Its working links with NATO mean it can draw on the full range of European capabilities, as well as Alliance command structures.

    Its close relations with the EU allow us to coordinate the military, political and economic elements of any European response to a crisis.

    But its decisions on military action will be taken, as they must be, on the purely intergovernmental basis laid down in the Modified Brussels Treaty.

    The WEU has gained useful experience in its operations so far: from mine-sweeping in the Gulf, to sanctions enforcement around the former Yugoslavia. But more work is needed before it can take on more significant tasks.

    The British Presidency’s objective is for the WEU to become fully operationally capable as soon as possible. At Petersberg in Germany in 1992, Ministers agreed that the WEU should prepare to undertake peacekeeping, humanitarian and crisis management tasks. Our objective is that, by the end of the year, the WEU should be ready to perform a good number of these.

    During the British Presidency, I hope the WEU will also develop its own contribution to the extension of stability eastwards. We need to build a better dialogue with the WEU’s Associate Partners in Central Europe. And we need to give substance to the WEU’s relations with Russia and Ukraine.

    Our security does not always come from the barrel of a gun. Alongside the WEU, the EU has its own formidable armoury of political and economic instruments with which to build security and reunite our continent.

    The EU’s Association Agreements with the countries of Central Europe, and its Partnership and Cooperation Agreements with countries further East, are an important force for security and prosperity.

    We must make the most of them:

    – I believe we should open negotiations for EU membership with at least some of the Central European countries as soon as possible after the Inter-Governmental Conference;

    – And we must keep the EU’s trading rules open and non-protectionist, so that we give all the countries of this region the trading opportunities they need to build strong economies;

    – And we must work together to build a common agenda for security in Europe and beyond.

    Europe must look South as well as East. We must build on last November’s conference at Barcelona to promote stability across the Mediterranean. And we must look to our interests further afield. The meeting between Heads of Government from Asia and the EU next week is an important first, and an excellent opportunity to increase cooperation between two of the world’s most dynamic regions.

    So what does all this mean for defence and security issues at the IGC?

    Britain’s approach will be practical. We will start with reality, the real challenges, and work out institutional conclusions from there. We will give priority to building security, not building institutions for their own sake.

    Stability and security in Europe does not depend on the European Union alone.

    What do we need? We need arrangements that:

    – First, allow everyone to play their part: not only the 15 members of the EU, but also the many European countries that do not belong to the Union. And, of course, the US and Canada.

    – Second, reflect the diversity of EU member states and their defence policies.

    – Third, respect the obligations of NATO members, including to Allies outside the EU.

    – Fourth, respect the position of EU members that have chosen to remain outside collective defence arrangements.

    Some have argued that the IGC should take the first steps towards an eventual merger of the EU and WEU by subordinating the WEU to political direction by the EU.

    But this would be to put institutional tidiness and the illusion of progress before Europe’s real security needs. It is a recipe not for more action, but for less.

    The European Union has an essential contribution to make to regional and global security in the non-military field. Britain will work hard at the IGC to improve the EU’s ability to do so.

    But encumbering the Union with military responsibilities would do nothing to enhance the unique contribution that the EU can make to greater regional security through the political and economic instruments available to it, even assuming it were politically feasible to fold the Modified Brussels Treaty into the Union Treaty and to replace this Assembly with the European Parliament.

    On the contrary, giving the EU military responsibilities for which it is not equipped would impede the task of extending stability and prosperity to the East, by adding a new obstacle to Central European accession and unnecessarily provoking Russian fears. It would marginalise some NATO Allies. And it would confront some EU member states with choices they are not ready to face. This is not the right way forward. Nor could we support it.

    In March last year, I put forward a series of proposals designed to make a practical contribution to European security: to respond to the challenges of the real world, today and into the foreseeable future.

    Decisions for the longer term can be taken in the longer term. Meanwhile, security will not wait. Today, our task is to deal with the challenges confronting us now. And the challenges now are to reinforce NATO; to develop the WEU as an organisation that allows Europeans to mount operations in close cooperation with our North Atlantic Allies in NATO; and to strengthen cooperation between the WEU and the EU.

    That is my agenda for the Inter-Governmental Conference, and it is an agenda which I warmly commend to the WEU Assembly today.

  • PMQT Written Answers – 22 February 1996

    Below is the text of the written answers relating to Prime Minister’s Question Time from 22nd February 1996.


    PRIME MINISTER:

     

    Engagements

    Mr. Harry Greenway: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 22 February.

    Sir Peter Tapsell: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 22 February.

    The Prime Minister: This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet and had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House, I shall be having further meetings later today.

    Deregulation

    Mr. Steen: To ask the Prime Minister what action he is taking to ensure that each Government Department lists in its annual report (a) what action it has taken in the past 12 months and (b) what it plans to do in the next 12 months to reduce the regulatory burdens on businesses.

    The Prime Minister: The Government have agreed as part of their response to the deregulation task force’s 1995 annual report, published in September 1995, that all governmental Departments will provide this information in their annual reports. It is for each Secretary of State to ensure that this happens.

    Mr. Steen: To ask the Prime Minister, pursuant to his written answer of 14 February, Official Report, column 592, from what sources of information he assesses the record of Government against their targets for repealing or amending regulations.

    The Prime Minister: I receive regular reports from the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster on progress under the deregulation initiative. These incorporate information from individual Departments on their progress in repealing and amending regulations.

     

    Scott Inquiry

    Mr. Janner: To ask the Prime Minister how he responded to communications received from Mr. Christopher Muttukumaru; what were the dates of letters; and if he will deposit copies in the Library.

    The Prime Minister: I and my officials have responded to a number of letters from Mr. Muttukumaru, for example, about my evidence to the inquiry in January 1994. Sir Richard Scott is free to publish any document he considers relevant to his report, consistent with his procedures. I understand that he proposes to do this as soon as possible.

    Mrs. Golding: To ask the Prime Minister if he will make changes in the personnel of his Department following criticisms contained in the report of the Scott inquiry.

    The Prime Minister: I do not envisage making such changes. Where officials criticised in the Scott report had acted conscientiously, in good faith and in accordance with Government policy, it would not normally be appropriate to take disciplinary action against them. If there are cases where disciplinary action is considered appropriate this would be carried out under normal departmental disciplinary procedure.

    Mrs. Jane Kennedy: To ask the Prime Minister how many persons and at what level in his Department were involved in considering the Government’s response to the report of the Scott inquiry.

    The Prime Minister: Access to the report itself prior to publication was restricted to a very small number of officials in the main Departments concerned in accordance with the procedures agreed with the Scott inquiry. However, the Scott report covered a wide range of policy issues and a number of other officials will have contributed to preparation of the Government’s response without sight of the report. It is not therefore possible to give their number or grades.

    Mr. Hain: To ask the Prime Minister what consultations he had with non-ministerial right hon. and hon. Members before the publication of the Scott inquiry.

    The Prime Minister: I had no such consultations on the contents of the Scott report or on the Government’s response to it.

    Mr. McNamara: To ask the Prime Minister if he will revise “Questions of Procedure for Ministers” following the report of the Scott inquiry.

    The Prime Minister: “Questions of Procedure for Ministers” is updated from time to time as the need arises. That will continue to be the case.

    Mr. McNamara: To ask the Prime Minister from which civil servants he took advice before making his decision not to permit members of opposition parties to see the report of the Scott inquiry until three hours before it was presented to the House.

    The Prime Minister: Successive Governments have not disclosed the nature or the specific sources of the advice they receive from the civil service.

    Mr. Kaufman: To ask the Prime Minister when the Scott report was made available to the head of research at Conservative central office.

    The Prime Minister: At 15.30 pm on 15 February 1996.

    Mrs. Dunwoody: To ask the Prime Minister when he first saw the report of the Scott inquiry.

    The Prime Minister: Wednesday 7 February 1996.

    Mr. Allen: To ask the Prime Minister what consultation he had with the Secretary to the Cabinet concerning the Government’s response to the Scott inquiry; and where and when such consultations took place.

    The Prime Minister: I have regular consultations with the Secretary of the Cabinet on current issues affecting the Government. These generally take place in 10 Downing Street. Details of these consultations are private.

    Mr. Winnick: To ask the Prime Minister when he first consulted other Cabinet Ministers about the contents of the report of the Scott inquiry; and where and when such discussions took place and with whom.

    The Prime Minister: I have frequent meetings with Ministers at which we discuss Government business. These meetings usually take place in No. 10 Downing Street. The details of such meetings are private.

    Mr. Hain: To ask the Prime Minister what was the cost of the allocation of persons in his Department to the consideration of the Government’s response to the Scott inquiry.

    The Prime Minister: Access to the report itself prior to publication was restricted to a very small number of officials in the main Departments concerned in accordance with the procedure agreed with the Scott inquiry. However, the Scott report covered a wide range of policy issues and a number of other officials will have contributed to preparation of the Government’s response without sight of the report. It is not therefore possible to give the cost of the work.

    Mr. Janner: To ask the Prime Minister what communication he received from the secretary of the Scott inquiry, concerning the time needed by the opposition parties to scrutinise the Scott report; on what date he received such communications; what was the nature of the contents of letters; and if he will deposit copies of those letters in the Library.

    The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. and learned Member to the answer given to him by the President of the Board of Trade today.

    Mr. Madden: To ask the Prime Minister at what hour and minute of what day the report of the Scott inquiry was delivered to his office.

    The Prime Minister: During the afternoon of Wednesday 7 February 1996.

    Mr. Tony Banks: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list the members of his Department who saw the report of the Scott inquiry before it was presented to the House; and when each saw the report.

    The Prime Minister: A small number of civil servants in each of the main Departments concerned had access to the report prior to publication for the purpose of preparing the Government’s response. Such access was in accordance with the conditions laid down by the Scott inquiry.

    Mr. Banks: To ask the Prime Minister on whose authority it was decided not to permit members of opposition parties to see the report of the Scott inquiry until three hours before the report was presented to the House.

    The Prime Minister: The Government decided, in the light of precedents, that it was appropriate to allow access to Opposition spokesmen three and a half hours before the publication of the report.

    Mr. Llew Smith: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list all locations where a full set of the transcripts from the Scott inquiry are lodged.

    The Prime Minister: Transcripts of oral evidence to the Scott inquiry are publicly available from Smith Bernal, Official Court Reports, 167 Fleet Street, London EC4A 2EA, tel. 0171 939 2266. I understand that copies are also available for public consultation in Westminster public libraries. Since transcripts of oral evidence were available to the general public I have no means of identifying the locations of all such transcripts.

    Mr. Hall: To ask the Prime Minister how many photocopies the Government have made of the Scott report as of 13 February.

    The Prime Minister [holding answer 16 February 1996]: No photocopies were made of the report as a whole prior to publication. Photocopies of some sections of the report were made, in accordance with agreements reached with the inquiry.

     

    Press Gallery Writing Rooms

    Mrs. Jane Kennedy: To ask the Prime Minister which Ministers in his Department entered the writing rooms of the Press Gallery on 15 February.

    The Prime Minister: If any Ministers did so, that is a matter for them.

  • PMQT – 22 February 1996

    Below is the text of Prime Minister’s Question Time from 22nd February 1996.


    PRIME MINISTER:

     

    United Nations

    Q1. Dr. Godman: To ask the Prime Minister, pursuant to his answer of 30 January, Official Report, column 772, what proposals he has made for the abolition of United Nations bodies.

    The Prime Minister (Mr. John Major): I believe in an effective United Nations. Eliminating waste must be part of that. As I advised the hon. Gentleman recently, that includes, where necessary, a long-term look at the functions and programmes that have outlived their usefulness.

    Dr. Godman: Before any such bodies can be abolished, the United Nations must contend with the election of a new Secretary-General. Why are the Government advocating the re-election of Dr. Boutros Ghali so assiduously? Should not the Prime Minister and other leaders be campaigning for a candidate of the stature of, say, President Mary Robinson of the Irish Republic, or some other stateswoman or statesman of equal standing? As for Dr. Boutros Ghali, should we not be saying cheerio to the old fellow?

    The Prime Minister: As I think the hon. Gentleman knows, the Government do not indicate how they will vote on these occasions, and I do not propose to do so now. What I think most important is that the United Nations is efficient, and efficiently run. It is distressing to note that a large number of United Nations bodies have patently outlived their usefulness. They have no proper functions to perform either now or in the future, and they should be removed.

     

    Engagements

    Q2. Mr. Malcolm Bruce: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 22 February.

    The Prime Minister: This morning, I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet and had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House, I shall be having further meetings later today.

    Mr. Bruce: Can the Prime Minister explain to the House–and, indeed, to the public–why, when the reputation of members of his Cabinet is at stake and when the House is to debate a report that he personally commissioned, he is denying the House a substantive motion on which to vote and, moreover, is not prepared to come here and take part in the debate?

    The Prime Minister: I am here every Tuesday and Thursday to answer questions, and I do answer those questions.

    Mr. Mackinlay: Where is the right hon. Gentleman on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays?

    The Prime Minister: If hon. Members wish to have Prime Minister’s Questions on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays, I am not entirely sure that they will carry the whole House with them.

    The House will be able to vote on Monday’s motion, and it is very likely that it will do so. If the main charges against the Government had been proved, of course it would have been entirely proper for me to be here to defend that, but they were not proved. Sir Richard has agreed that there was no conspiracy, no cover-up. It is entirely proper that my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade, to whom the report was addressed, should lead for the Government, and he will do so.

    Mr. Nicholls: Does my right hon. Friend agree that it is simply unacceptable that an unelected foreign court should put its judgement on British policy before that of a British Home Secretary? If ultimately we have to follow the consequences of backing British opinion and contemplate leaving the European Court of Justice at the expense of pandering to the European liberal intelligentsia, would that not be very much the lesser of two evils?

    The Prime Minister: It is of course extremely disappointing–and to many hon. Members extremely irritating–that the European Court of Human Rights has found against the Government on a procedure that has been used in this country for very many years. My right hon. and learned Friend the Home Secretary is looking very carefully at the judgment to see precisely what effect it has. I have said before that the Government are not satisfied with some of the rulings made by the European Court of Human Rights and we are pursuing with other members of the Council of Europe precisely what might be done to improve what we believe is a flawed system.

    Mr. Blair: Does the Prime Minister agree that there are two questions on the Scott report: first, was Parliament misled and, secondly, were Ministers to blame? On the first, the Chancellor has been forced to issue an apology today for a Treasury press release and has admitted that Scott found that Parliament was misled. Does the Prime Minister agree with that? Can we have a clear answer? Does he accept that Scott found that Parliament was misled?

    The Prime Minister: There were two questions, of course, that Sir Richard Scott was asked to investigate, and he investigated both those and other matters as well. The two principal points that Sir Richard was asked to determine were, first, whether Saddam Hussein was illegally supplied with arms–as charged by right hon. and hon. Opposition Members–and he found that he was not; and, secondly, whether there was a conspiracy to pervert justice by an improper use of public interest immunity certificates and, again, he found that there was not.

    On whether Parliament was misled, as I have said to the right hon. Gentleman before, none of my right hon. Friends intentionally misled Parliament. They did not. If the right hon. Gentleman had read the Scott report carefully, he would know what Sir Richard had to say about that. He would know that my right hon. Friend the Chief Secretary to the Treasury was cleared of duplicitous intent and that he was not accused of deliberately misleading Parliament. The right hon. Gentleman knows that and I am surprised that he keeps pursuing a point that he knows is wrong.

    Mr. Blair: We will come to the question of blame, Ministers deliberately withholding information from Parliament in breach of rules of accountability, not telling the truth when they were in a position to know so–all of which Sir Richard found. Can I have it clearly on the record whether the Prime Minister, leaving aside the question of intention, to which we will come, accepts that Parliament was misled–yes or no?

    The Prime Minister: I answered that question on Tuesday. I have answered that question again today and I have made it absolutely clear. There was no intention whatever to mislead Parliament–nor did my right hon. Friends do that on any occasion of which I am aware.

    Mr. Blair: The Prime Minister is not prepared to answer the basic question. How has he reached the position of commissioning the report to get at the truth, and three years and millions of pounds later walking away from the findings that he does not like? Just like Nolan, just like Greenbury–it is a textbook definition of Majorism. Can the Prime Minister please tell us whether he accepts the key findings, first, that Parliament was misled and, secondly, that Ministers deliberately withheld information in breach of the rules of ministerial accountability? If he cannot answer them, we will conclude that he is unable and his Government are unable to distinguish between what is true and what is false.

    The Prime Minister: That was not so much a sound bite as a sound nibble. The right hon. Gentleman knows that there was no deceit whatever, and that was apparent from the report. I will tell the House why the right hon. Gentleman keeps moving to these points. He knows that on the substantive issues Sir Richard found in the Government’s favour. He knows that on the issues that the inquiry was set up to consider, the Government were found to have behaved entirely properly. That is why the right hon. Gentleman changes the ground rules.

    On the central issues of the Scott report–the issues that have led the Opposition to blackguard the Government repeatedly over the past three years–Sir Richard found in the Government’s favour. The right hon. Gentleman will scrabble on wherever he can to change what he said before and to hide what he said before, and to try to impute deceit where there was none.

    Dr. Spink: Why are non-wage labour costs in the UK half those of our major competitors? Why is our take-home pay higher than that of our major competitors and why is our unemployment lower? Is it a result of the Government’s policies, which are making us the enterprise centre of Europe?

    The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend is right to draw attention to this country’s favourable economic position. He is equally right to draw attention to the fact that, if we accepted the social costs, through the social chapter as it is now and the social chapter as it would be if any British Government were foolish enough to join it, we would find the same extra costs, the same lack of competitiveness and the same increase in unemployment as we have seen in so many of our competitor countries across Europe. We have no intention of making those mistakes. No party that is genuinely concerned about employment should contemplate such policies, because they will keep people out of work who are out of work at present and they will put out of work people who are in work at present.

     

    Q3. Mr. Mike O’Brien: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 22 February.

    The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. O’Brien: Returning to the Scott report– [Hon. Members: “Oh.”] Conservative Members suggest that it is boring. It is not boring in my constituency, which is just down the road from Matrix Churchill. Now let the Prime Minister try to give us a straight answer to a straight question. Does he accept the finding of the Scott report that the Attorney-General was personally at fault for failing to pass on the view of the Deputy Prime Minister that the documents for which he claimed public interest immunity should be shown to the defence?

    The Prime Minister: The Attorney-General made it clear to the House on Monday that he took specific steps to ensure, through my right hon. Friend’s special PII certificate, that the judge was alerted to the need for special care. The judge exercised his discretion, precisely as the Attorney-General had said he would, and ordered the disclosure of the relevant papers to the defence. The hon. Gentleman should stop twisting and misinterpreting what happened.

     

    Q4. Mr. Carrington: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 22 February.

    The Prime Minister: I refer my hon. Friend to the answer I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. Carrington: Does the Prime Minister agree that, with high unemployment in this country and even higher unemployment in our European partner countries, we need policies that will lift the burden off industry to enable it to create jobs? Whatever the wriggling, the Labour party’s support for the social chapter and the minimum wage blows apart its claim to be able to create jobs. All it would do is tax jobs.

    The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend is right about that. [Interruption.] I said “my hon. Friend”. Fond though I am of the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull, East (Mr. Prescott), I do not regard him as my right hon. Friend in parliamentary terms–[Interruption.] The right hon. Gentleman seeks repeatedly to interrupt Prime Minister’s Question Time. He reminds me that it was he who said that, after 15 years of deregulation, he did not see much investment flooding in. He should go to Sedgefield, Livingston and all sorts of other places throughout the country to see the inward investment that has been a result of this Government’s policy. It has provided jobs for people whom the right hon. Gentleman’s policies would leave on the scrap heap for ever.

     

    Q5. Mr. McAvoy: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 22 February.

    The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. McAvoy: The Prime Minister keeps on repeating that the Scott report has cleared his Government. If that is the case, why is he so scared of allowing the House a vote on the future of the two Ministers concerned? What is he scared of?

    The Prime Minister: The House will have its opportunity to debate and to vote on the motion on Monday. I have indicated my confidence in both Ministers. I have indicated that, on the two substantive matters that caused me to set up the Scott report, Sir Richard has cleared the Government of any malpractice whatsoever. I have also said before, and I repeat it again now, that what happened did bring out shortcomings in some areas. I said that last week and I repeat it again today. We will take those shortcomings very seriously. We are examining what Sir Richard had to say and we will bring before the House speedily our proposed measures to remedy those things that need changing.

  • PMQT Written Answers – 21 February 1996

    Below is the text of the written answers relating to Prime Minister’s Question Time from 21st February 1996.


    PRIME MINISTER:

     

    Kashmir

    Mr. Cox: To ask the Prime Minister if he will support the setting up of an eminent persons group to seek to discuss a possible settlement to the conflict in Kashmir; and if he will make a settlement.

    The Prime Minister: I am not aware of any plans to set up an eminent persons group. We continue to believe that the best way forward on Kashmir should involve simultaneous progress on dialogue between India and Pakistan; improvement in human rights in Kashmir and a genuine political process there; and a clear cessation of support for violence in Kashmir.

     

    Naturalisation

    Mr. Alton: To ask the Prime Minister on how many occasions in 1993 Government Whips submitted written statements or were consulted on individual applications for naturalisation as a British citizen; and if he will make a statement.

    The Prime Minister [holding answer 16 February 1996]: In 1993, Home Office Ministers and officials in the immigration and nationality department received 10 letters from six hon. Members who were Government Whips about individual applications for naturalisation as a British citizen, all of which were constituency cases.

    Correspondence from the hon. Member for Gedling (Mr. Mitchell) cannot be located immediately. My right hon. Friend the Home Secretary will write to the hon. Member shortly.

    No Government Whips were consulted about any individual cases for naturalisation.

     

    Scott Inquiry

    Mr. Hall: To ask the Prime Minister (1) how many civil servants have been assigned to work on the Government’s response to the Scott report as of 13 February;

    (2) if he will list the grades and job titles of all civil servants who have worked on the preparation of the Government’s response to the Scott report.

    The Prime Minister [holding answer 16 February 1996]: The information is not held centrally and could therefore be assembled only at disproportionate cost. Access to the report itself prior to publication was, however, restricted to a small number of officials in the main Departments concerned.

    Mr. Llew Smith: To ask the Prime Minister if he will place in the Library a copy of his written statement and replies to written questions posed by Sir Richard Scott to the inquiry into trade with Iraq.

    The Prime Minister [holding answer 16 February 1996]: I understand that Sir Richard Scott will be publishing these documents as soon as practicable.

    Mr. Smith: To ask the Prime Minister if he will now list the titles of each of the papers his office made available to the Scott inquiry.

    The Prime Minister [holding answer 16 February 1996]: I understand that Sir Richard Scott will be making available the source documents referred to in his report and responses to requests for written evidence as soon as possible.

     

    Iraq (Equipment Exports)

    Mr. Llew Smith: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list the companies or individuals which made the representations referred to in his answer to the hon. Member for Amber Valley (Mr. Oppenheim) on 24 November 1992, Official Report, column 583.

    The Prime Minister [holding answer 16 February 1996]: No. The names of companies or individuals who have corresponded with my Department is confidential unless they give their permission for this information to be disclosed.

     

    Chile (Armaments Production)

    Mr. Llew Smith: To ask the Prime Minister what communications (a) he and (b) other Ministers received from Dr. Carlos Cardoen of Chile since 1985 over the procurement of British machine tools for the production of armaments in Chile.

    The Prime Minister: As far as I am aware, we have no record of any such communications having been received from Dr. Carlos Cardoen.

  • PMQT Written Answers – 20 February 1996

    Below is the text of the written answers relating to Prime Minister’s Question Time from 20th February 1996.


    PRIME MINISTER:

     

    Engagements

    Sir Peter Tapsell: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 20 February.

    Mr. Harry Greenway: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 20 February.

    The Prime Minister: This morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House I shall be having further meetings later today.

     

    Defence Exports

    Mr. Llew Smith: To ask the Prime Minister if he will change Her Majesty’s Government’s policy of not commenting on detailed matters concerning individual defence exports.

    The Prime Minister [holding answer 16 February 1996]: I refer the hon. Member to the statement made in the House by my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade on 15 February 1996, Official Report, columns 1139-44.

     

    Honours Nominations

    Mr. Harris: To ask the Prime Minister how many nominations for honours have been received in the latest six month period for which figures are available compared with the last six months before the increased publicity was given to the system for public nomination.

    The Prime Minister: In the last six months of 1995, 4,316 nominations were received. Statistics for the period leading up to my statement in March 1993 were not kept.

     

    Departmental Running Costs

    Mr. Andrew Smith: To ask the Prime Minister what were in each year from 1979 to 1994, in real terms, (a) the running costs of his private offices, separately identifying expenditure on staff and (b) the running costs of the Department.

    The Prime Minister [holding answer 15 February 1996]: Information on expenditure by my office is not available on a consistent basis for the years between 1979-80 and 1985-86. Expenditure since 1986-87, at 1994-95 prices is as follows:

    £ million

    Total expenditure Staff costs Other costs

    1986-87 7.471 2.514 4.957

    1987-88 7.744 2.520 5.224

    1988-89 8.780 2.551 6.229

    1989-90 9.603 2.703 6.900

    1990-91 9.536 2.386 7.150

    1991-92 9.454 2.488 6.966

    1992-93 10.344 3.043 7.301

    1993-94 9.395 3.331 6.064

    1994-95 [1] 7.671 3.217 4.454

    Information on the running costs of the Cabinet Office is given in the annual report of the “Cabinet Office, Privy Council Office and Parliament”, a copy of which is available in the Library of the House.

    (1) In 1994-95 spending of £0.718 million on communications was transferred from No.10 budget to the Cabinet Office.

  • PMQT – 20 February 1996

    Below is the text of Prime Minister’s Question Time from 20th February 1996.


    PRIME MINISTER:

     

    Engagements

    Q1. Mr. Martyn Jones: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 20 February.

    The Prime Minister (Mr. John Major): This morning, I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House, I shall be having further meetings later today.

    Mr. Jones: Does Prime Minister accept Sir Richard Scott’s judgement that the Attorney-General was personally at fault? Given the collapse in public confidence in him, is it not time that the right hon. Gentleman started referring to him as unassailable?

    The Prime Minister: I have to say that I believe that the Attorney-General acted perfectly properly throughout this whole affair.

    “How the narrative of fairness can be fabricated into an indictment of the Attorney-General, I fail to follow.”

    Mr. Mackinlay: It is because he is an awful lawyer.

    The Prime Minister: I am sorry to hear what the hon. Member for Thurrock (Mr. Mackinlay) below the Gangway says because I was quoting the defence counsel at the Matrix Churchill trial.

    Mr. Matthew Banks: On a different point, does my right hon. Friend recall the dark days of nationalised industries when they cost the taxpayer £50 million a week? Is he able to contrast that with the position now where, in the private sector, they contribute £50 million to the national coffers? Is that not about five new schools a week? Is that not something that the Labour party simply has not grasped?

    The Prime Minister: I agree with my hon. Friend about the advantages of private ownership over public ownership. We have seen this in a wide range of areas over many years. I have no doubt that, wherever appropriate, things are better handled in the private sector and should be in the private sector rather than in the public sector. That is so in terms both of the experience that we have of the way in which the private sector operates and of the general demand to make this country competitive, with the lowest possible tax regime consistent with that.

    Mr. Blair: Does the Prime Minister agree with the specific finding of Scott that Ministers agreed to the sale of non-lethal weapons to Iraq, and agreed not to inform Parliament and the public, and that that failure was deliberate and in breach of their duty of ministerial accountability? Does he agree with those specific findings of Scott or not?

    The Prime Minister: If the right hon. Gentleman takes time to read the whole of Sir Richard Scott’s report, he will see that Sir Richard accepts that Ministers regarded not that there was not a change of the guidelines but that there was an interpretation of the guidelines against changing circumstances. Sir Richard accepts explicitly that Ministers regarded the relaxed interpretation

    “as being a justifiable use of the flexibility believed to be inherent in the Guidelines.”

    [Interruption.] I am sorry that hon. Members are laughing. That is Sir Richard’s view and I agree with him on that point.

    Mr. Blair: The point that I am asking the right hon. Gentleman about comes before that about whether the guidelines were changed; it is whether he is prepared to accept the specific findings in D4.42 of the Scott report that Ministers agreed to the sale of non-lethal weapons to Iraq, that they agreed specifically not to tell Parliament, and that that agreement in Sir Richard’s words was “deliberate” and in breach of their duty of ministerial accountability. Rather than the general, will he answer that specific? Will he tell us whether he agrees with that paragraph of the report–yes or no?

    The Prime Minister: What Sir Richard says is that the reason for the decision not to inform Parliament was because of a concern that to do so

    “might be detrimental to British trading interests”–

    that is to say, jobs. That is a direct quotation from what Sir Richard had to say.

    Mr. Blair: That is simply not the case. Sir Richard gives specifically the reason why Ministers did not tell Parliament and the public. He said:

    “the overriding and determinative reason was a fear of strong public opposition”.

    That is a quite different matter. [Interruption.] Does not the matter go to the very heart of parliamentary democracy? On virtually every page of the report there are details of answers that are inaccurate, untrue, misleading. Is no one going to take responsibility for that? Have no Conservative Members got the courage? Does none of them want to hold Ministers to account? If the Prime Minister cannot answer and say whether he agrees with the paragraph–it is his report, which he set up, on which he spent money–the Conservative party and the Conservative Government will remain knee deep in dishonour.

    The Prime Minister: On the question of defence exports, let me remind the right hon. Gentleman–he may not like it–of what the right hon. Member for Bethnal Green and Stepney (Mr. Shore) said when he was a Minister. That spokesman for a Labour Government said:

    “It has been the policy of successive Governments not to reveal information on the supply of arms to individual countries.”–[Official Report, 10 June 1974; Vol. 874, c. 396-97.]

    Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that that was the Labour Government’s position? He huffs and puffs with false indignation. If he had a shred of honesty himself, he would admit that the two central charges levied at the Government repeatedly by the hon. Member for Livingston (Mr. Cook) and his hon. Friends have been found to be untrue and should be withdrawn.

    Sir Michael Marshall: Does my right hon. Friend agree that in an increasingly competitive and turbulent world, this or indeed any Government must take great care in the way in which they balance national interest and the promotion of British exports? Is it not clear that my right hon. Friend the Chief Secretary and my right hon. and learned Friend the Attorney-General are honourable Members and that they should be given some degree of trust and flexibility, as the Labour party would give its Ministers if it were in government? The right hon. Member for Sedgefield (Mr. Blair) should have a care.

    The Prime Minister: I think that there are some substantive points, which tend to get lost amidst these exchanges, and I shall tell the House what the important ones are. We did not export lethal weapons to Iraq, unlike many other countries. No British troops in Kuwait faced British weapons, and our guidelines for the export of defence equipment to Iran and Iraq were at least as strict as, and probably stricter than, those of any other country. That is the reality that the British nation needs to understand, and that the Opposition seek to hide.

    Mr. Ashdown: Can the Prime Minister think of any other organisation in Britain, except perhaps British Gas, in which senior executives who had been criticised by an independent inquiry in the terms in which his Ministers have been criticised by Scott would be allowed by the boss to hang on to their jobs?

    The Prime Minister: Again, the right hon. Gentleman resorts to partial understanding. Whether that is a tactic or whether the right hon. Gentleman really understands only partially, is something that neither I nor the House has ever been able fully to understand. If the right hon. Gentleman reads the whole report, he will realise that the central charges levied, the charges that required me to set up the report so that they could be impartially examined and laid to rest, have been impartially examined, and have been laid to rest.

    Mr. Peter Ainsworth: Did my right hon. Friend see the report in The Sunday Telegraph this week about the relative competitiveness of British industry? It was entitled, “Britain advances, Germany retreats”. Does my right hon. Friend agree that our vital interests lie in free trade, free markets, free enterprise policies and freedom from the social chapter and from the other Euro-meddling so beloved by the Labour party?

    The Prime Minister: I am entirely happy to agree with my hon. Friend about the economic circumstances that we now face, as a result of the difficult and often unpopular decisions that we have taken to put the British economy on an even keel. We now have the best platform for sustained prosperity, and for sustained growth with low inflation, that we have seen for many years. Nobody doubts that, except those who are professionally inclined to wish to doubt it, because it conflicts with their interests–and they sit on the Opposition Benches.

     

    Q2. Mr. Alan W. Williams: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 20 February.

    The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. Williams: Does the Prime Minister agree with Sir Richard Scott that the Chief Secretary to the Treasury again and again, in letter after letter to hon. Members, misled Parliament about the arms sale policy to Iraq, and consistently failed to discharge his duty of ministerial accountability to Parliament?

    The Prime Minister: No; I have made the point before, and I shall reiterate, that I do not believe that my right hon. Friend deliberately misled Parliament. [Hon. Members: “Oh!”] I do not believe that. The requirement to inform Parliament is clearly set out in “Questions of Procedure for Ministers”–and the reason why the House knows that is that I arranged for its open publication for the first time. Unlike previous Governments, who were asked to publish it by their own backbenchers, I published it without being asked. Previous Governments were asked, and declined to publish.

    Mr. Butcher: Does my right hon. Friend agree that, as well as having the fullest support of the British people, both in Ulster and on the mainland, in pursuing the peace initiative, he also has the widespread support of the British people both in Ulster and on the mainland in vigorously pursuing those who wish to damage the civil liberties of the people of London and elsewhere, through a bombing campaign? Does he further agree that those who wish to damage the civil liberties of our people should not be too surprised if their own civil liberties are damaged in the pursuit of justice?

    The Prime Minister: We are determined to maintain law and order and democratic principles and we shall continue to seek and hunt down those responsible for the recent attacks. We give the highest priority to the security of citizens on the mainland and in Northern Ireland. Each of the three bombs in the past 10 days or so has been the act of men callously unconcerned about the death or injury of innocent people–perhaps people who have had no connection whatsoever with the ancient feuds and disputes of Northern Ireland. I do not believe that they either deserve or will receive sympathy and understanding from any decent citizen, either here or in Ulster.

     

    Q3. Mr. Foulkes: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 20 February.

    The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply I gave a few moments ago.

    Mr. Foulkes: Does the Prime Minister agree that, since the Chief Secretary has repeatedly given inaccurate and misleading information to Parliament and to the public, he is the ideal man to present the Tory party’s tax plans at the next election?

    The Prime Minister: The hon. Gentleman may be interested to know that my right hon. Friend will be presenting tax plans from this Dispatch Box after the election also.

     

    EU Unemployment

    Q4. Sir Teddy Taylor: To ask the Prime Minister if he will raise at the next meeting of the European Council the level of unemployment in the EU.

    The Prime Minister: I shall take every opportunity to protect the United Kingdom’s flexible labour market and falling unemployment against the damaging effects of the social chapter. No other significant European country has an unemployment rate lower than ours.

    Sir Teddy Taylor: As high unemployment is becoming a tragic nightmare on the continent of Europe– by comparison with the UK, where unemployment has been falling consistently–will the Prime Minister do all in his power to persuade his colleagues in Europe to abandon illogical policies such as fixed exchange rates, which are simply a recipe for job destruction?

    The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend is quite right about the relative levels of unemployment. While unemployment fell here last week to a five-year low, in most similar large European countries it is either growing or remaining static at a much higher level than here in the United Kingdom. As the president of the European Monetary Institute said just the other day, other member states should use the United Kingdom as their economic model. I am delighted to have his support–that is what I have been saying to my colleagues on the European Council for several years now.

  • PMQT Written Answers – 19 February 1996

    Below is the text of the written answers relating to Prime Minister’s Question Time from 19th February 1996.


    PRIME MINISTER:

     

    Advertising

    Mr. Redmond: To ask the Prime Minister what is the annual cost of the Government’s advertising budget for each of the last five years.

    The Prime Minister: There is no central advertising budget. This is a matter for individual Departments.

     

    Out-of-school Activities

    Mr. Alex Carlile: To ask the Prime Minister if he will make it his policy that every Government Department should produce proposals to ensure that the public and private sectors are able to encourage and, where necessary, provide a wide range of out-of-school activities for 10 to 16-year-olds; and if he will make a statement.

    The Prime Minister: The public and private sectors are already free to encourage or provide out-of-school activities and schools are free to use them, or not, as they wish.

     

    Public Records

    Mr. Llew Smith: To ask the Prime Minister what plans he has to review the Public Records Acts 1958 and 1967 in regard to the selection of material for retention and release.

    The Prime Minister: The Government have no such plans as their policy on the release or withholding of records under the provision of the Public Records Acts was reviewed in 1992-93. The results of that review were published as chapter 9 of the White Paper on open government, July 1993 (Cm 2290).

     

    Scott Inquiry

    Mr. Llew Smith: To ask the Prime Minister what is his policy towards the correction of answers given to Parliament where civil servants responsible for drafting or Ministers or former Ministers told the Scott inquiry that they were inaccurate.

    The Prime Minister [holding answer 16 February 1996]: If the answers to any parliamentary questions require correction, they are corrected.

  • Mr Major’s Comments on the Scott Report – 16 February 1996

    Below is the text of Mr Major’s comments on the Scott Report, made on the 16th February 1996.


    PRIME MINISTER:

    I think Sir Richard has done a very thorough, very competent job and I am very grateful to him. It has taken three years of work and I think people can now see the outcome. I thought it was very important that Sir Richard examined these matters because the charges that were laid, that the Government were seeking to arm Saddam Hussein and that Government Ministers had conspired to send innocent men to jail, were very serious indeed. I thought the only way that they could be comprehensively examined and people would realise that they were untrue was to have the sort of examination Sir Richard has carried out so I am immensely grateful to him for it.

    I think you need to look at the whole context of the report. What was the report about? The report was about whether innocent men were going to be sent to jail by conspiracy and whether Saddam Hussein was being armed by the British Government. Those were the charges, those frankly were the smears with which Robin Cook and others have run with consistently over the last three years. They are comprehensively dismissed and I don’t think you can overlook the fact that that was what the report was about. They have gone. There is no doubt that didn’t happen. I am delighted at the outcome. I believed that that would be the outcome because I know William Waldegrave very well. It never occurred to me for a second that these charges would be true and it was important to me that the British nation realised that and now they do.

    I think there are lessons to learn from Sir Richard’s report. It is very comprehensive. It has shown up some shortcomings and mistakes and I shall take these very seriously.

    When I invited Sir Richard to set his own terms of reference I did so knowingly. I did so knowing he would look at it very carefully and he might throw up things that needed to be amended and needed to be changed, and he has in some respects and we will examine these very carefully. Some we have already put into operation and others we are examining. All of them will be examined with very great care. The dissemination of intelligence material for example. Clearly it would have been better if that had been better disseminated. That is an illustration of it. Indeed the fact that there are something like 100,000 pieces of intelligence to be looked at in a short period is a mitigating circumstance but there is more to be done. So there are things to be learned from the report.