Tag: Greece

  • Sir John Major’s Comments on the Financial Situation – 9 October 2011

    The text of Sir John Major’s comments on the financial situation, made in an interview on 9th October 2011.


    QUESTION:

    [Sir John was asked if the economy was in a serious state].

    SIR JOHN MAJOR:

    I think it’s pretty serious, but I think if you can reach a conclusion to the Eurozone crisis you’ll change the level of confidence and I think that will make a material difference. But at the moment you have the Eurozone pretty flat as an economy, you have American flat, you have the Chinese economy slowing and we don’t know how much it will slow, and you have the British economy teetering between no growth and tiny growth, so plainly it’s serious. And it is a different sort of recession from before because of the debt overhang.

    So yes, I do think it’s very serious.

    QUESTION:

    [Sir John was asked if the Bank of England Governor was right in saying the recession was worse than in the 1930s].

    SIR JOHN MAJOR:

    I think he’s looking at the scale of debt, if you actually look at the United Kingdom as an example, in 1997 – to pick a date at random – we had a national debt of about 350 billion, by 2010 it was 900 billion and on unchanged policies by 2014 it would be 1.4 trillion. So you begin to see the scale of the problem, and the fact it is absolutely unavoidable that you make changes in order to bring down that level of debt, because that overhang could be with us otherwise for generations.

    QUESTION:

    [Sir John was asked if everyone would have to work harder and cut back].

    SIR JOHN MAJOR:

    Certainly for a while, I don’t think there’s any doubt about that. There’s no point in pretending that the situation is suddenly going to magically come good with a bit of growth. I’m afraid we need a good deal more than that. And we’re going to have to restructure a great deal of what has happened, not least in the Eurozone which is crucial to us because we are not part of the Euro because, as you rightly say, I opted out in the Maastricht Treaty, but the Eurozone is 40% of our exports and the rest of the European Union as a whole is 50% of it, so their health is crucial to our health.

    QUESTION:

    [Sir John was asked if the Germans would transfer more money in].

    SIR JOHN MAJOR:

    I think it’s very unlikely, and the Germans have expressly been told that they won’t move towards a transfer union which is essentially what is being talked about.

    QUESTION:

    [Sir John was asked if the Eurozone would fracture].

    SIR JOHN MAJOR:

    I think it’s extremely unlikely that the European Union will fracture with nations dropping off the edge.

    QUESTION:

    [Sir John was asked if Greece would default].

    SIR JOHN MAJOR:

    It’s conceivable.

    QUESTION:

    [Sir John was asked if Greece would default within the Eurozone].

    SIR JOHN MAJOR:

    I think that is exactly what will happen and should happen. But I think that it is unlikely that the Eurozone will toss out a member, it’s conceivable that it could happen, but it would certainly be against their wishes.

    I think by far the most likely proposition, firstly you have to look at the short-term problem and then the longer-term problem. In the short-term the banks needs to be recapitalised and Greece needs to default. The sooner that happens and Greece defaults, the sooner you remove something, the overhang in the markets.

    QUESTION:

    [Sir John was asked what would happen if Greece defaulted].

    SIR JOHN MAJOR:

    What would happen is that if Greece defaulted and couldn’t pay its debts, all the Greek bonds that are held in other banking systems across Western Europe would suddenly have no value. You could, as a knock-on effect, create a banking crisis in Western Europe and French and German banks have most of the bonds. That would be absolutely catastrophic if that happened. So the Greeks mustn’t default until the Western European banks are in a position to absorb any losses that there might be without creating a banking crisis.

    QUESTION:

    [Sir John was asked if banks would be given money to fund this loss].

    SIR JOHN MAJOR:

    I think the way they may do it, I think there are two things that they could do, the first thing I think they could do is turn the European structural facility from a structural facility into a bank, give it a banking licence, let it leverage.

    QUESTION:

    [Sir John was asked if this would mean a new European Central Bank].

    SIR JOHN MAJOR:

    No, it would be quite separate from the European Central Bank, let it borrow money as banks normally can from the European Central Bank and either buy up the Greek bonds to remove the danger, the contagion from the Western banks, or use the resources to recapitalise the banks so they can bear the losses.

    That seems to me to be the first thing that has to happen, and then it would be thoroughly desirable, in my view, to get the Greek default out of the way. It’s a terrible overhang in the market, it’s partly priced-in, let’s get it done and then we can move on to the longer term.

    QUESTION:

    [Sir John was asked why he didn’t join the Euro].

    SIR JOHN MAJOR:

    There were three arguments, the first was that if you had a monetary union without a fiscal union it’s like a two-legged dog.

    The second argument, at Maastricht we produced some safeguards – although I opted out at Maastricht, we produced some safeguards – one of them was that no European nation would have a fiscal deficit of more than 3%, and the second was that before the Euro was formed the economies of those nations going into the Eurozone should converge, and by that piece of jargon we meant that they should operate at broadly the same level of efficiency. That didn’t happen.

    In the late 90s the French and Germans began to worry whether the Eurozone would ever happen, so they went into the Euro without the convergence. That was the tragic mistake, it shouldn’t have happened.

    Thirdly, when the Germans and the French went beyond the 3% deficit, the Commission took no action against them and everybody else did too, so you got this burgeoning level of debt that began to spread everywhere.

    QUESTION:

    [Sir John was asked if the Euro would change].

    SIR JOHN MAJOR:

    It will have to change, I think it will have to change.

    QUESTION:

    [Sir John was asked about the flapping of white coats].

    SIR JOHN MAJOR:

    No, the flapping of white coats was on a quite separate matter – and I don’t withdraw the remark. The substance of the argument is exactly the same as I advanced at Maastricht.

    QUESTION:

    [Sir John was asked whether the Euro-sceptics had been right].

    SIR JOHN MAJOR:

    They were partially right, but only partially right, and I will come to the situation as I saw it. The need for fiscal union is something we foresaw at Maastricht, which is why we opted out at Maastricht, that was right and is right.

    What is now I think going to happen, albeit in a crab-wise fashion, I think the Eurozone members will have to move towards a fiscal union. I don’t think they will suddenly say they are going into full-scale fiscal union, it would need a treaty and all sorts of other things.

    What I think they will do is produce legislation within the European Union that makes the control of fiscal deficits, the harmonisation of tax and matters like that, much more controlled from the centre. So they will be moving towards a federal state within the Eurozone and they will be moving to it out of failure and not out of success, that is the point.

    It then gets to the position where you have an inner-core within the Eurozone that is operating much more deeply and closely together than the rest of the European Union. And if you remember in the 1990s, Douglas Hurd and I, we called it variable geometry, and we saw a much looser European Union in which people opted in instead of opting out, and it wasn’t such a tremendously prescriptive union which everybody had to be a part of.

    That is the direction over the next decade, slowly, in which I think we will be going.

    QUESTION:

    [Sir John was asked if there would be a referendum on a new treaty].

    SIR JOHN MAJOR:

    There won’t necessarily have to be a treaty in this country for fiscal union. In terms of fiscal union it is conceivable that there will be a treaty just among the members of the Eurozone, so don’t overlook that possibility.

    QUESTION:

    [Sir John was asked if the referendum could be about a federal Europe that Britain wasn’t a member of].

    SIR JOHN MAJOR:

    I think that is conceivable. There are a dozen different ways in which this could unwind and frankly nobody can be certain which way it will go at the present time.

    But it is possible that there will be a fiscal union amongst the Eurozone members, they would have their own treaty. But at some stage there will be another treaty because if there’s fiscal union in Europe, it changes our relationship with Europe. That is the fundamental point.

    QUESTION:

    [Sir John was asked if powers should be transferred].

    SIR JOHN MAJOR:

    I think it gives an opportunity for two things, firstly, it gives us an option to negotiate for the looser form of Europe that I would like to have seen in the 1990s and we got no traction when Douglas Hurd and I argued for that then. I think it presents that opportunity. And secondly, I think there are some areas that are worth looking at, and this isn’t anti-Europeanism or Euro-scepticism. There are some areas which it would be worthwhile to repatriate.

    Fishing is one. There are elements of employment law, it used to be in the Social Chapter and has now spread, you will recall that I opted out of that in 1992 because I saw it as a job destroying mechanism. Now it has changed but the things like the working time directive, which I think is a very foolish piece of legislation, we could look at repatriating part of it.

    Clearly, financial services is another area. There has been a lot of talk about the financial transactions tax, I don’t think that will happen, for a range of complex reasons, but even so, financial services are crucial to the well-being of the British nation, it is what drove our growth – over-drove it as it happened – over the last twenty years or so.

    We really don’t want a whole series of restrictive notions damaging our financial structure in this country.

    QUESTION:

    [Sir John was asked if this was a new opportunity for Britain].

    SIR JOHN MAJOR:

    Europe changed fundamentally when the Europeans ignored the safeguards in the Maastricht Treaty and proceeded to an unsafe Eurozone, which they did in 1999 without any bark of protest from the United Kingdom. That changed it, that changed everything, because the Eurozone was no longer going to be a stable instrument, we were going to be outside it, but it could have been stable and it wasn’t. And that was a significant change and now I think there is an opportunity.

    I don’t see this as a Euro-sceptic attack on Europe, I see that with 27 nations within the European Union it has to change. It cannot be the same as with 15 nations or with 6.

    QUESTION:

    [Sir John was asked whether quantitative easing was right].

    SIR JOHN MAJOR:

    It isn’t George who has just quantatively eased as it happens, it’s the Governor of the Bank of England, and I think the Governor is right to do so.

    When you consider how much of our economy is driven by exports and you then see what is happening to our markets overseas, I think the Bank of England are right to quantatively ease. I think he is right. But more valuable might be the proposals put forward by the Chancellor himself to direct money specifically to parts of industry.

    QUESTION:

    [Sir John was asked about Liam Fox and what the Prime Minister should do].

    SIR JOHN MAJOR:

    It’s extremely difficult to handle these, either natural justice requires that you have to wait a long time and you’re then said to be incapable of making decisions if you operate under natural justice. Or you move too speedily and you’re said to be ruthless, so I don’t know what the situation is, the Prime Minister has asked for the facts to have a first look on Monday, and I think that is right.

    From the Prime Minister’s perspective he has to balance natural justice and the truth, rather than the gossip, the rumour and things that may be true, but I’ve no idea whether they are or not.

    QUESTION:

    [Thank you].

    SIR JOHN MAJOR:

    Thank you, my pleasure.

  • Sir John Major’s Ditchley Annual Lecture Speech (Ditchley Foundation) – 9 July 2011

    The text of Sir John Major’s Ditchley Annual Lecture speech, made at Ditchley Park in Oxfordshire, on Saturday 9th July 2011.


    SIR JOHN MAJOR:

    First, let me add my welcome to Jeremy and Anne Greenstock and John and Penny Holmes.

    Jeremy and Anne have been great servants of Ditchley; John and Penny are already showing they will be. We are lucky to have them.

    When John invited me to speak to you today, I was very reluctant to accept. I was dismayed that, once again – with impeccably bad timing – the Ditchley Lecture clashes with a Test Match. I also recalled some outstanding Lectures at Ditchley over recent years. I nearly said – No.
    I didn’t, because there are things to be said, questions to be asked – and ideas to be floated – that can more easily be done by a former politician than a current one. And where better than Ditchley – for so long a home for rational thought and considered debate? An oasis of calm in a world of frenzy.

    Every time I come here I am reminded of our debt to David Wills – and now, Lady Wills and Catherine.

    I just want to say to Eva and Catherine: we owe you more than we can repay.

    In preparing for today, I took to heart GH Hardy’s observation that one ought never to waste time stating a majority opinion. I will try and follow that advice.

    Accepted opinion is often wrong. Even more often, out of date. And, frequently, complacent.

    Let me say at the outset that nothing I say should be taken as a trial balloon for anyone else. I speak for myself alone and – reluctantly but possibly – will offend political friend and foe alike. Nevertheless, I shall set out what I believe Western Governments must do to secure our well-being, in a world that is moving faster than we are.

    This world is digitalising, urbanising and ageing. It is also migrating. The age of the single language, single culture state is over. Medicine, science and technology are carrying us where we have never been before. Social networks can elect Presidents and foment revolution. Global markets have outstripped the control of nation states.

    The world of 20 years ago, let alone 50, has long since vanished. In every field of human endeavour – and nearly every aspect of life – yesterday’s certainties are today’s imponderables and tomorrow’s dilemmas.

    The future raises uncomfortable questions, and even more uncomfortable answers. Some challenges are domestic, others can be resolved only by collective action. And, even if they are faced, and even if there are successful outcomes – and these are two big “ifs” – they will merely head off future problems.

    Pain now for gain later has never been an easy sell for politicians and, in a social climate that expects instant gratification, it becomes even harder. It was easier being a politician yesterday than today. And it is easier today than it will be tomorrow.

    The core question is: what must our Governments do to ensure our future prosperity? Must we change our policies, our expectations, our tribal politics – or all of these? It simply defies logic that the whole world can turn upside down, while we meander on in the same old way.

    At stake is our material well-being – and our status in the world – in 20, 40, and 50 years’ time.

    Some may say the battle is lost – that this will be China’s – and Asia’s – Century. I don’t believe that is pre-ordained. China, in particular, has many problems. The Communist philosophy is discredited. Her Government is not elected. Its only legitimacy is growth.

    In China and Asia, we are already seeing that rising living standards will bring greater demands – for social welfare, pension and much else besides – that will eat away at their present competitiveness.

    So this economic triumph of the East isn’t assured, but we do know they will be formidable competitors. So how are we placed to respond?

    Our present position, to put it mildly, is uncomfortable. It is axiomatic that every generation has an obligation to pass on to its successor something better than they themselves inherited. In recent times, we have failed.

    We have spent tomorrow’s money on yesterday’s gratification, and there is something immoral in that. And we have presided over a systemic financial collapse that has forced the prudent to bail out the reckless. There is something unjust in that.

    This is a sharp reminder that our democracy doesn’t guarantee efficiency. The democratic checks and balances we so cherish can become roadblocks. The tyranny of the electoral cycle can push politicians to short-term decisions.

    Equality replaces quality. Sound-bites stand in for home truths. It feels odd to point up the short-comings of democracy, when it has achieved so much – but if we don’t recognise them, we can’t correct them.

    Democracy has entrenched an enviable liberty of thought and action and presided over a quality of life our forebears could not have imagined. We are safer and, until now, richer. It has had a civilising influence. We have learned that decent people come in all colours. We abhor racism and bigotry. We have developed good human instincts of care and compassion.

    In due time, electors can vote Governments out and mostly they depart peacefully into Opposition. No wonder it is widely admired and copied. It has served us well but, on its own, democracy will not secure our place in tomorrow’s world.

    ECONOMY

    The financial crisis has highlighted a reality the West can no longer ignore: our days of easy economic supremacy are over.

    The drift is undeniable. The West has lost its competitive edge against China, India, Indonesia and Brazil as well as many smaller countries, notably in Asia and Latin America. Financial firepower is moving from West to East. Thirty five years ago, the fifteen core countries of the EU accounted for broadly 36% of global GDP, and Asia only 16%. Projections suggest that, in twenty years’ time, that will almost precisely have reversed. As we stutter, the rest of the world grows.

    America has, largely, held decline at bay: but, even so, her share of global GDP has fallen from 26% to 23%. Economically, in one lifetime, the world will have turned on its head.

    It’s easy to see why. Where ambition confronts complacency, ambition wins. In countries that are one generation away from poverty I see a passion and drive for success that sweeps away barriers. Even if we are aware of the tidal wave of competition that is coming, we have not prepared for it. We are falling behind and at risk of falling further.

    We shouldn’t deceive ourselves this is simply the fall-out from the financial crisis. It is a long-term trend.

    Some see no danger. They argue that the West can be sanguine about Eastern competitiveness because our quality of life is so far ahead.

    Such people should get out more. Let me cast an unforgiving eye on that complacency: the UK first.

    In terms of GDP, the UK is the sixth most wealthy country in the world. But our national Balance Sheet carries many liabilities. Our physical infrastructure is old. Our health service is creaking. Whilst the best of our education – especially higher education – is world-class, some of it is unforgivably awful.

    We are up to our ears in debt. The Exchequer is empty. The Gold is gone. The post-dated cheques are accumulating interest. We are over-taxed. We have an under-class: poorly educated, poorly housed and unmotivated.

    We are no longer an Empire, nor will be ever again. Today, we are a shrinking military power. By choice, and with majority public approval, we are semi-detached members of the EU. And even America – for so long our closest ally who generally sees the world as we do – is turning her face to the East, as self-interest determines she must.

    There is absolutely nothing here to be complacent about.

    America faces many similar problems – most obviously debt, which was 40% of GDP in 2008, 69% in 2011, and is projected to be 85% by the end of the decade – and rising. Yet only about one-half of the population pays federal income taxes.

    The risk remains of the US Treasury defaulting on its debt as it runs up against the legal limit it can borrow. I daresay a compromise will be reached, but this flirting with brinkmanship is dangerous. The collapse of Lehman Brothers was catastrophic. A Treasury default could be as bad. I hope those playing political games realise that the effect of their actions could spread far beyond America.

    In the foremost free market economy in the world, average household debt comfortably exceeds average annual income. And a rising proportion of that income now comes from the State.

    About 45 million Americans now receive food stamps: the modern equivalent of bread lines. Medical costs threaten to spiral out of control.

    Huge housing debts held by Banks are not written off: if they were, there would be lower profits, and lower bonuses. Total mortgage debt has quadrupled in 20 years. Today, there are two million mortgages not being paid.

    And so the merry-go-round continues: Banks are still lending 95% mortgages on a falling market at a multiple of income: admittedly now – they say – only to more credit worthy customers. No one should assume the financial crisis cannot be repeated: it certainly can. But, if it is, it will be unforgiveable.

    EUROPE

    As for Europe – the word is engraved on my heart. Northern Europe is healthy but Southern Europe is sunk in debt and uncompetitive. The EU as a whole is divided on how to handle budget deficits, the crisis in the Eurozone, control of the Central Bank, nuclear policy, as well as how to react to Libya, Afghanistan and the Arab/Israeli conflict.

    Twenty years ago, led by France and Germany, a confident EU was paving the way for the Euro. The assumption in the European Council was that, before the Euro could be launched, the economies of nations wishing to be part of it would converge: by that piece of jargon, we meant operate at broadly the same level of efficiency.

    But that didn’t happen. It was politics – not economics – that launched the Euro in the late 1990s. Sterling did not join because, in 1992, I had opted out of the Euro at Maastricht. I didn’t do that out of sentimentality for the Pound – nor to placate sceptic opinion. If I’d wished to do that – with my Party or the Press – my life would have been much more comfortable. I didn’t. It wasn’t – because I thought then, and argued then, that the concept had flaws.

    Today, Germany – with its powerhouse economy – is locked within the same currency, at the same exchange rate, as the weaker economies of the Southern European States.

    In a sensible world, the Southern States would devalue but – of course – they can’t and so, to become competitive and stay in the Eurozone, they must devalue internally. Unemployment will rise, wages must fall, and so must living standards.

    This threatens Greece, Portugal, and – possibly Spain and Ireland – with many years of austerity. As we see in Greece, the scale of that austerity may not be acceptable in a liberal democracy. Meanwhile, others power ahead.

    It is not immediately clear how Europe will resolve this dilemma. But the present position is unsustainable. Either the EU becomes effectively a Union of transfer payments to offset regional disparities (as happens in Canada), or it creates a mechanism to shrink the Eurozone. Nothing else makes long-term sense.

    Germany and France will not permit – cannot afford to permit – a reprise of the present crisis. In Germany, in particular, it is causing immense political agony. When the President of the ECB proposed a European Ministry of Finance with power to intervene in national economic policies, he caused commotion. But something will have to be done. Somehow, binding rules will be imposed on debtors.

    Despite Eurozone members insisting they will not surrender fiscal sovereignty, it is not hard to look ahead and imagine a Eurozone with fiscal – as well as economic – union, in practice if not in name. I don’t like this – it was a prime reason for not joining the Euro – but, if it happens, it may have the effect of pushing the UK further away from the mainstream of the EU.

    The UK is often accused of being half-hearted over its commitment to Europe. Continental politicians bemoan our caution. “If only the UK took up its responsibilities” … it is a familiar theme, and we will hear more of it.

    Let me respond. I am not anti-European. I am not a sceptic in the accepted sense. I never have been. I see the nobility of intent in binding together nations that fought one another over many centuries.

    I see the economic advantages of the single market, and the political advantages of extending democracy to nations that were locked in the Soviet embrace. But I am wary of many European policies. If they are flawed, or unworkable, or alien to our instincts, our Government has a duty to question them.

    Where we can work together, let us do so. That is sensible. But the Union cannot succeed if nations are – sullenly and resentfully – bound into policies they believe are damaging to their national interest. Far better to plan for a multi-speed Union, with nations opting-in to policy rather than opting-out. In a 27 Nation Union, I believe we will come to that, although it is far from the ambitions of some of our partners.

    If the UK is semi-detached, that is only, in part, because of British scepticism: it is also because the EU has chosen, time and again, to go in a direction they know Britain cannot follow. Every recent Prime Minister has ended up less European than he – or she – began.

    As to the future – it is difficult to see where Europe is going. Some would like to break away entirely from the EU. In a world in which many policies need collective action, that would be folly. If we are drifting apart, there is cause to beware: it is time to take stock.

    GOVERNMENT/POLITICAL SYSTEM

    In the search for future well-being that is true of our political system as well. At the moment, neither American nor British politics is in a state of grace. It has become too inward-looking. Too short-term. Our systems embrace politicians, and carry them off to a world the rest of us don’t inhabit. It’s time to bring them back. And focus them on the far distance as well as tomorrow.

    There is a fault line in our national policy-making processes:

    When do politicians have time to think?

    There is time to do, based on advice.

    There are policies to advocate, based on conviction.

    There are people to placate, based on necessity.

    But, in Government, too often, senior politicians are fire-fighting yesterday’s problems instead of thinking how to fore-stall tomorrow’s.

    Would it not be better to carve out sufficient time so that – routinely – they can frame policies to safeguard our future in 20/50 years from now?

    And – if they did think and plan far ahead – it would give them time to explain, to cajole and to carry electorates with them in controversial policy. That’s never easy – as we see today.

    To help bring this about, we should encourage governments to devolve more and do less: in some areas, we are ludicrously over-governed. The nanny state may be well-meaning, but it is also stifling.

    I am one-quarter American, so I hope I might be forgiven for speaking bluntly. At the moment, the American political system is dysfunctional.

    It is easier to stop good policy than to pass it. Bi-partisan co-operation is grudging and limited. Moreover, it is getting worse as re-warding of congress and district boundaries makes seats safer for Republicans or Democrats: the inevitable effect is fewer “middle of the road” candidates being elected. The first loser is compromise. The ultimate loser is sensible, non-ideological policy.

    The power of special interest lobbies is excessive. There have been 27 Bills affecting Energy over recent years where the representatives of six States, irrespective of Party affiliation, have voted for the Coal lobby position on over 80% of votes. In the Senate, this has been sufficient to block anything the industry does not favour. This is not in the national interest. It is naked self-interest. Sadly, it is not the only example (in domestic or foreign policy).

    I remember former Presidents bemoaning the introspection of Congress – my expression, not theirs – and their concern that only a minority of its Members travelled overseas to see the world for themselves. Since American foreign policy affects us all, this is lamentable.

    But it’s easy to see why. A competitive election contest in New York, or New Jersey, home to the most expensive media markets, could cost a candidate $10 million. On average, candidates must raise over $1.3 million to fight each campaign. And campaigns come every other year.
    To fight these elections, the average candidate must raise over $50,000 each and every month. No wonder they don’t travel. Such frequent elections also create obligations to donors – and lobbies. They put a premium on short-term populist policies.

    It would make for far better decision-making if elections were less frequent and there were limits on spending. This might also cut down on negative campaign advertisements, the net effect of which is simply to damage the reputation of politics.

    I claim no superiority for the British system.

    For generations, Britain has basked in the glory of our Parliamentary system. Much of the world flatters it as an example of a mature democracy, a supreme Parliament, an independent Judiciary and an impartial civil service.

    I cherish the traditions that add majesty to Parliament. Yet even I, who look at Parliament with affection, can see it must be made more efficient.

    We could begin by widening the pool of talent prepared to enter politics, by removing some of the disincentives to do so.
    I would pay MPs a fixed and generous salary, and cut out all living allowances. This is not entirely fair to Members with remote constituencies, but life is not fair – and such a system would avoid the recent scandals that have done so much harm to Parliament.

    We need, also, to attract to the Commons men and women at the top of their profession. It is one of the oddities of democracy that fundamental policy choices are made by men and women who, apart from the legitimacy of election and a native intellect, have no qualifications to make them.

    How many MPs can bring direct knowledge to how banks should be regulated? Or how hedge funds work? Or are familiar with e-money? Or nuclear energy? Or the social and medical implications of embryology?

    We would benefit from our legislators having more practical knowledge.

    Of course we can hire specialist advisers, but that can never be as effective as influential, knowledgeable voices speaking with expertise in the Chamber, in the Committees, in the tea rooms, in Party meetings.

    There is no solution to this dilemma that doesn’t cut across our traditions, and so I would do just that. Why not elect fewer Members of Parliament and appoint, on a basis pro rata to votes cast in the General Election, a similar number of Members without constituencies?

    I know the familiar arguments against this – a few years ago I would have used them myself forcibly – but, on reflection, I now believe enhancement of the talent pool is so vital it justifies the changes.

    If the Commons baulks at a further reduction in its Members then, as Douglas Hurd and I have argued before, let us appoint unelected Ministers, answerable to Parliament, but without being Members of it. Or, of course, let us do both. Douglas and I have argued also for fewer Ministers and fewer PPSs: we have far too many of each: they could be severely cut back.

    At the moment, all three major Parties are committed to an – at least partly – elected House of Lords. The Lords does need reform. It has too many inactive Members. It is too big and unwieldy. But election is the wrong reform.

    The case for election is democratic legitimacy. However, if we want an efficient legislature, the case against is far more compelling.

    An elected Upper House would cease to be a revising Chamber and would demand more powers that could only come from the Commons.

    There would be confusion and conflict. We should be reducing the number of politicians and adding to their quality. An elected Lords would add more politicians and reduce their quality. That is a bad bargain.

    Does anyone imagine that Chiefs of the General Staff, Cabinet or Permanent Secretaries, Captains of Industry, Chancellors of Universities, Professors of Medicine would stand for election?

    Of course they wouldn’t, and elected replacements could never bring such a depth of knowledge to the scrutiny of legislation. If the answer is more elected politicians, we are asking the wrong question.

    A better reform would be to improve Parliamentary procedures. Cut the number of whipped votes. And reform PMQs to discourage its vaudeville element.

    I offer only one further of many options. Parliament’s workload leads to legislation being poorly scrutinised, and often shown to be defective. In Criminal Justice alone, 68 sections and 25 schedules of 19 Acts remain unimplemented: many because they are unworkable.

    Why not subject all mainstream Bills to Select Committee scrutiny and public evidence before final drafting? If we did so, we would get better, more relevant, and more coherent, new laws.

    And must the Westminster Parliament oversee so much? I think not. It would be more efficient if it were less over-burdened.

    DEVOLUTION OF POWER

    There are options:

    Pass fewer laws – which is attractive, and to be hoped for: though I’m not holding my breath.

    But we could contract more to local government and devolve more to the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Ireland Assemblies. In a cautious and incremental way, the Coalition is taking action to do this. I welcome that and encourage them to go further.

    Some years ago, I opposed the creation of local Mayors. I was wrong. Mayors do put in place a dynamic and – as successive Mayors of London have shown – they can be effective megaphones for our big cities. But under present plans, Mayors will only inherit the existing powers of Council leaders: in future, I hope their remit can be widened.

    There is one caveat: their power of decision should be real, not illusory, and this implies a funding responsibility to pay for – at least the majority of – their policies. When next we look at local authority finance that should be the objective.

    Devolution can also reduce the Westminster workload. But there is some groundwork to be cleared first. The present quasi-federalist settlement with Scotland is unsustainable. Each year of devolution has moved Scotland further from England. Scottish ambition is fraying English tolerance. This is a tie that will snap – unless the issue is resolved.

    The Union between England and Scotland cannot be maintained by constant aggravation in Scotland and appeasement in London. I believe it is time to confront the argument head on.

    I opposed Devolution because I am a Unionist. I believed it would be a stepping stone to Separation.

    That danger still exists. Separatists are proud Scots who believe Scotland can govern itself: in this, they are surely right. So they point up grievances because their case thrives on discontent with the status quo. But even master magicians need props for their illusions: remove the props, and the illusion vanishes.

    The props are grievances about power retained at Westminster. The present Scotland Bill does offer more power to the Scottish Parliament.

    But why not go further? Why not devolve all responsibilities except foreign policy, defence and management of the economy?

    Why not let Scotland have wider tax-raising powers to pay for their policies and, in return, abolish the present block grant settlement, reduce Scottish representation in the Commons, and cut the legislative burden at Westminster?

    My own view on Scottish independence is very straightforward: it would be folly – bad for Scotland and bad for England – but, if Scots insist on it, England cannot – and should not – deny them.

    England is their partner in the Union, not their overlord. But Unionists have a responsibility to tell Scotland what independence entails.

    A referendum in favour of separation is only the beginning. The terms must then be negotiated and a further referendum held.

    These terms might deter many Scots. No Barnett Formula. No Block Grant. No more representation at Westminster. No automatic help with crises such as Royal Bank of Scotland. I daresay free prescriptions would end and tuition fees begin.

    And there is no certainty of membership of the EU. Scotland would have to apply, meet tough criteria, await lengthy negotiations and would find countries like Spain – concerned at losing Catalonia – might not hold out a welcome for Separatists. And, even if Scotland were admitted, they would find their voice of 5 million is lost and powerless in a Union of 500 million.

    But it must, ultimately, be their choice.

    SOCIETY

    Reforms within politics can – I believe would – improve policy-making, but it is the guts of policy that really matters. I simply observe that in considering future policy every Minister should ask one question: does this improve our long-term ability to compete and grow? If it does – good; if it doesn’t – think again.

    Growth is not just a matter of economic policy. Social policy is a part of the competitive structure – not apart from it. To grow, we need to improve our human infrastructure.

    EDUCATION

    Education and skill attainment are as crucial to economic success as cash investment. In the ancient world, Plato taught Socrates who taught Alexander.

    Rather more recently, Tony Blair famously declaimed “Education, Education, Education”. I had the same priorities but in a different order.

    Neither of us was original. Lenin first said it in 1917.

    And we were all right – except that we failed. And among the alienated and the under-educated, how much talent is lost? How many lives are wasted and unfulfilled? How high is the social and economic loss? Money has been put into education but the return on investment has been disappointing.

    It is a reproach to every Government over the last 40 years that employers routinely bemoan the numeracy and literacy of far too many school-leavers. As a Nation, we can’t afford that.

    A recent OECD survey, based on science, maths and literacy, put America – once top – at 26th, and the UK even lower: eight of the top ten performers were emerging Asian States. This isn’t some remote trend we can ignore: our children and grandchildren will be in direct competition with these young Asians.

    One reason for Asian success seems to be that they have invested heavily in teachers. Paid them well. Trained them well. And built up their prestige and social standing. As a result, they have attracted their brightest and best into the profession.

    Parents, too, have a responsibility for their child’s education. Too many opt out – none should.

    Events in California, in 1996, are suggestive. After positive discrimination had resulted in low graduation results and high drop-out rates, “Proposition 209” banned any reference to race, sex or ethnicity in University admissions.

    Students were selected purely on their Grades. Admissions from Asian Americans soared. The only explanation for this was parental influence. There is a lesson here. However good teachers may be, the role of parents remains the single most important input into any child’s life opportunity.

    If, as most of us accept, the economic future of the West lies, in part, with maintaining a technological advantage, we must produce the relevant skills. But we are just not doing so. China is producing over three times as many engineering, science and IT graduates as the United States. And over three times as many Chinese graduates at the top-most level with PhDs.

    In the UK, in the decade to 2007, there was a fall of nearly one-third in single honours chemistry courses, and 14% in physics. The West had better focus on the fact that Asian manufacture is already moving up the value chain.

    No Government is always right. Or wrong. In the UK, I applaud warmly the high ambition of Ministers in the previous Government who argued for long-term social reform. My only regret is that others, more senior and less far-sighted, sometimes over-ruled their efforts.

    “Thinking the unthinkable” was ditched. That was a pity.

    I welcomed their early ideas – as indeed I should: many of them were my ideas long before they were theirs, and – in some cases – Margaret’s before they were mine.

    That doesn’t matter. In a good cause, I welcome policy kleptomania. As someone who was opening Academy Schools 20 years ago, I was genuinely delighted when Andrew Adonis developed the policy and successfully carried it forward.

    Education is not our only social policy failure over decades. In our broadly prosperous country, there are still far too many graffiti-ridden slums, on soul-less Estates, in run-down areas, that dis-incentivise those who live there.

    There are too many neighbourhoods where unemployment has become a way of life; where an existence on social benefits seems normal.

    For too many people, self-determination has morphed into a belief in self-entitlement, where no-one is responsible for anything, and welfare is a legitimate career choice. America has problems that are similar in character.

    The Coalition is now embarked on reforms to health, education and social security that are long overdue, controversial and necessary. As Labour built on Conservative policy, now Conservatives will build on Labour’s.

    I hope everyone, irrespective of Party, who agrees with these reforms will support them publicly when Ministers face the inevitable protests that are to come. It will be a lost opportunity if they are sacrificed to our adversarial political system.

    Within the compass of my direct experience, I have tried to look forward. I have focused on what is not working well. But I am optimistic.

    The Western democracies always over-estimate what they can do in the short-term and under-estimate what they can achieve in the long-term. If we accept what needs to be done – we can do it. But – as Goethe noted – “until one is committed, there is hesitancy”. We must be committed.

    I would like to see a senior Minister, of Cabinet rank, given responsibility for “The Future”. His or her role would be to cast an independent eye on what needs to be done that is not being done; and what is being done that could be harmful in the future.

    Such a Minister would be the voice of the next generation. The conscience of the Government. The guarantor of the legacy. To do the job well, he or she should be an enormous irritant to Departmental Ministers and the Treasury but, with the backing of a committed Prime Minister, would ensure the interests of the next generation are not sacrificed on the altar of immediate consumption.

    Mr. Chairman, time is a tyrant and I have only skimmed the surface of policy for tomorrow.

    I have not touched on traditional foreign policy issues – much as I wished to: that must await another occasion. On that, and on so much else, there is a great deal to be said and – as my Grace Note – let me observe that those of us gathered here are well-placed to say it.

    CONCLUSION

    We are, or were, the Establishment – or part of it. Some still are. We are winners in the Ovarian lottery. Gathered here are intelligent, civilised men and women, skilled at diplomacy and dispassionate judgement. If the late John Osborne were to categorise us, it would not be as “Angry Young Men or Women”, but as “Mellow Old Achievers”.

    We are, many would say, the past: Neanderthals from the pre-internet age. But we have one huge advantage: we have seen the world as few others have seen it. So I want to end with a plea. It is that – in an age that glorifies youth – we should use our collective experience to help signpost a path for the future.

    We may have a shorter lease on that future than the young, but they are our young, and we have an obligation to care about their future.

    Whether British, or American, or Continental European, the task facing our respective Governments is herculean. We can stand aside, shrug our shoulders and smile benignly on their efforts, our own work done. Or we can pitch in and help them.

    That, surely, is the right thing to do.

  • Sir John Major’s Speech to the Mexico Chamber of Commerce / COMCE – 13 September 2010

    The text of Sir John Major’s speech to The Mexico Chamber of Commerce / COMCE, held at the Torre Mayor in Mexico City, on Monday 13th September 2010. The speech was entitled “UK and Mexico – Partners in a Changing World”.


    SIR JOHN MAJOR:

    It’s always a pleasure to visit Mexico – and never more so than to represent the British Government at your Bicentennial Celebrations.

    For two countries – half a world apart – we have much in common, both in the past and – more important – in the future. We were the first European nation to recognise Mexican independence. British engineers helped Mexico’s early development and – I believe – even introduced football – soccer – to your country.

    Today, we still have much in common. We’re both democracies. We’re free-traders. We work together to solve problems of climate change and sustained development. We both wish to reform out-of-date international institutions – especially financial institutions.

    I could easily extend this list – it would be easy, and comfortable, to do so.

    Instead, I want to refer to one other aspect we have in common: the fact that neither one of us has made as much of the Mexican-British relationship as we could – and should.

    Yes, trade and investment is growing. Yes, we exchange students. Yes, the political relationship is perhaps closer than ever before. I, myself, am here today at the specific request of the Prime Minister – who could not travel here at this time. Proof positive of the UK Government’s wish to increase the personal links that we know are so important in taking our overall relationship further.

    But we could – and should – do so much more. Nor should we be inhibited by the real problems of security and drugs. Both countries are – apart from a few restrictions – open for business, and the opportunities are huge.

    Mexico is, for example, far easier to do business with than China, Brazil or Russia. The UK is the 5th largest economy in the world. Mexico is the 14th, and moving up rapidly. The scope for doing so much more is self-evident.

    And it is in both our national interests to do so, as the recent economic downturn has made clear. Mexico becomes less reliant on the US; the UK returns to a traditional Latin American market it has ignored for far too long. As a result, we both widen our markets.

    In a global market, this could happen spontaneously. But we should not leave it to chance. That is why I am delighted that both our Governments are keen to promote greater mutual trade and investment, and I want to commend our Ambassador, Judith McGregor, and the British Embassy, Pro-Mexico, COMCE and the UKTI, for the work they are already doing in this endeavour, not least with our “Think Britain” and “Mexico Matters” initiatives.

    Why is it so important that we act now? Because the world is re-shaping rapidly.

    Today, change is brutally swift. The leaders with whom I once worked are now part of history, although I still see many of them, including your former President, Ernesto Zedillo – a good friend whom I cherish.

    Another was Boris Yeltsin. Alas, no longer with us. Market economics were a mystery to Boris. Once asked him to tell me “State of Russia” in one word. “Good”, when asked in two words, “Not good”. Today we’re passing through a “not good” phase.

    Let me look around the world in which Mexico and the UK must compete: The East, which was not highly indebted, is moving forward swiftly. The West, which was – is not.

    A recovery of sorts has been stimulated – but it has left many Western Governments drenched in debt. What does that mean for the years ahead?

    Some of this is becoming clear.

    America first – since she is crucial to Mexico. The recession ended last autumn, but growth is still weak – and much of it driven by artificial stimuli that will soon be gone. So there is a risk – unlikely, but a risk – that the up-turn will stall – or even fade away.

    The UK and the EU are in a similar position, with one important difference which I will come to later.

    The UK has a new Government – a novel coalition of Conservative and Liberal-Democrats. It is unknown political territory but it does know what needs to be done – and has the Parliamentary majority to do it.

    Economically, the UK – like other nations – is in a difficult situation, and hard decisions will have to be taken in order to stimulate our long-term recovery.

    The new Government is already taking these tough decisions, and has made it clear that we see the emerging markets as playing a key role in that recovery.

    Thanks to the UK opt out from the Euro, we do so against a more positive backdrop than our European partners, who have the additional dimension of Greece – and Spain, Portugal, Italy and Ireland – all facing debt crises, but who cannot stimulate their economy by devaluing their currency because they are in the Euro. The pain of the recession for them is being felt in slow growth, unemployment and business failures. Some have forecast Greece will leave the Euro or, more dramatically, the Euro will break up. I very much doubt that.

    A bail-out package for Greece has been agreed. Personally, I’m not convinced it will prevent a default or a restructuring – but it buys time for other euro debtors to begin to put their finances in order. Nor will Greece leave the Euro – inside its situation is dire: outside it would be catastrophic.

    As for the Euro, too much political credibility has been invested for it to be abandoned. I don’t say this as a euro-enthusiast.

    In 1991, as Prime Minister, I refused to commit Sterling to the Euro-zone because I did not see how monetary union could work without economic convergence: and I did not believe Greece or Portugal or Italy would match the economic efficiencies of Germany. Nor have they.

    It is due to that 1991 opt-out that the UK is now in a much stronger position for recovery than the Euro-zone.

    Elsewhere, there is a brighter picture. Although the collapse in Western demand hit the Eastern economies, the larger countries – China, India, Indonesia – were not highly leveraged, and have emerged in good order.

    Latin America has changed dramatically for the better over the last two decades. It is now a Continent of increasingly stable democracies. It is not deeply in debt. Its economic fundamentals are stronger much of the developed world: its foreign exchange reserves are at an all-time high.

    Its collective GDP is – to within a whisker – the same as China, and three and a half times that of India. Latin America is in a good position to bounce back from the economic crisis.

    In the Middle East, North Africa and the Gulf, some countries were barely affected by the financial turmoil: indeed, most grew around 5% despite the steep drop in the oil price.

    What can we expect as we look forward?

    In the West – more regulation and control. Higher taxes to cut deficits and – in due course – higher interest rates to fund them. Public spending will fall.

    So will private spending, as the impact of high unemployment – and record levels of personal debt – encourage the consumer to save more and spend less. All of this suggests a muted recovery.

    Over recent years, the world has looked enviously at the energy-rich countries – especially in the Gulf – and the spending power of their Sovereign Wealth Funds.

    When oil fell to US$40, OPEC cut output to sustain the price. It has since risen to US$70-80 for two reasons:

    – rising demand as growth returns; and
    – a growth in investment in oil as an asset. In the medium-term, it is more likely to rise further than fall. This is also crucial to Mexico.

    What risks lie ahead?

    Of course, the risk of a double-dip into recession, but that is very unlikely, although growth may slow.

    A greater risk is protection, which is always a danger at times of high unemployment.

    Mini protections – hidden protections – exist almost everywhere. A recent study identified 192 Protectionist measures in OECD countries, with a further 148 in the pipeline: fortunately, many are not obvious or inflammatory. It is gratifying to see that Mexico – under the leadership of President Calderon – continues to promote Free Trade and fight against protectionism in all its forms.

    If protection gets out of hand it is dangerous. It risks retaliation: it was, after all, what caused the problems of 1929/30 to become the prolonged slump of the 1930s as world trade fell by two-thirds. The dangers of protection should always be in our mind.

    It is easy (and fashionable) to be gloomy about the mature Western economies and to look too much to China and the East. We shouldn’t overdo this: the West may not be able to compete on labour costs but while they continue to lead the technological revolution they will remain the key economic players.

    I am here to celebrate the bicentenary of Mexico, but let me touch on some of the areas where there are great shared opportunities for us over the next 200 years:

    Consider science: the first integrated circuit – invented by Jack Kilby in America in 1958 – proved to be the fore-runner of silicon chips containing – literally – billions of microscopic circuit elements. Nothing in the 20th century has so accelerated change; it led to the computer revolution; to the Digital Age. Without that circuit there would be no Silicon Valley; no Internet; no laptop; no Google; no iPods; no Blackberrys, no PlayStations – and none of the hundreds of millions of jobs they have created.

    As science changes how we live, medical science is changing the quality and length of our lives. A hundred years ago, no-one knew of blood groups, hormones or barbiturates. Since then, medicine has given birth to whole new industries. New technologies are delivering better drugs, healthy food, new pesticides, the control of pollution, and advances in forensic medicine.

    Scientists are now examining how to combine computer chip technology with pharmaceutical research so they can target drugs to treat specific parts of the body. Imagine – for example – chemotherapy with only minimal side-effects.

    Such science is leading a revolution in medical care: advances in engineering techniques have given us insulin pumps for diabetes; cochlea implants for deafness; and there are realistic prospects of repairing nerve cells for sufferers of Parkinson’s and Alzheimer’s disease. It may soon be possible to replace heart muscle cells.

    A few years ago, all this would have seemed like Black Magic. Soon, fantasy will become reality, with commercial prospects that are simply staggering.

    One continuing headache will be energy supply and energy security.

    We know that coal, oil and gas are going to dominate energy supply for decades to come – irrespective of any advances in solar energy, advanced bio-fuels, fusion and other renewables.

    Since this is so, we need to develop carbon capture and store the carbon residue where it is safe – probably for centuries. This R&D challenge is daunting – and so is the cost – but energy security is a policy no-one dare ignore.

    So is the risk of climate change. Because hard-to-ignore science tells us the risks of global warming are real. Most scientists expect global warming of between two to five degrees. This sounds small – but isn’t: in the depth of the last ice age, the temperature fall was – five degrees.
    Energy security is not the only long-term challenge. In the last fifty years, world population has grown from less than 3 billion to over 6.5 billion. At the birth of Christ, world population was – probably – 300 million. By 1900 – 19 Centuries later – it had grown by something over one billion. We now grow by nearly one billion every decade.

    World population is projected to reach 8 or even 9 billion by 2050. This is like absorbing two more nations the size of China. It offers social threats and economic opportunities.

    We live in a fast-moving, ever-changing, uncertain world, with many risks and challenges ahead – yet there are so many opportunities.

    Over two decades, China and the US have developed a huge inter-locking economic relationship. Japan and China are beginning to repair old scars. Latin America has become a Continent of Democracies. And – until the recession – Africa was growing faster than at any time in our lifetimes. Europe has moved the free market eastwards and southwards.

    In a preface to some famous essays, an English philosopher flatteringly observed to his patron that “You have planted things that are likely to last”.

    As have the UK and Mexico, by working closely together in:

    – Pursuing a global deal on climate change;
    – Fighting protectionism and promoting free trade;
    – Creating a low-carbon global economy.

    But we could do so much more and – by doing so – we will forge a closer, more meaningful relationship between our two nations – for the next 200 years and beyond.

  • Mr Major’s Joint Doorstep Interview with the Greek Prime Minister – 23 April 1996

    Below is the text of Mr Major’s joint doorstep interview with the Greek Prime Minister, Mr Simitis, in London on Tuesday 23rd April 1996.


    PRIME MINISTER:

    Can I just say how much I welcome the Prime Minister’s visit here to Downing Street today and very much welcome him into his new responsibilities.

    We have had the opportunity this afternoon of a fairly wide ranging discussion. The Anglo-Greek relationship is extremely good. We think it could be closer and better, we think we can improve the trade and investment flow between our two countries and we have taken some time in discussing that. We have also looked at developments in the European Union, coming up to the intergovernmental conference and beyond the intergovernmental conference, and we have discussed the Cypriot problem of course and the relationship between Greece and Turkey and a number of other matters. I won’t go into the details of all our discussion so we will happily take a few questions in a few moments.

    MR SIMITIS:

    We had a very good and fruitful discussion with Mr Major. Mr Major mentioned the main problems we discussed – British-Greek relations, trade relations, cultural relations, our politics in the Balkans, the European Union problems, Greece and Turkey relations and the Cyprus problem. There are differences of views but there are also many common points, and I think on the basis of our discussions we can continue to work together and to find solutions to all problems.

    PRIME MINISTER:

    I agree.

    QUESTION:

    In which area did you find support from the Greek Prime Minister on [inaudible].

    PRIME MINISTER:

    I think you had better ask the Prime Minister, our position is pretty well known.

    MR SIMITIS:

    As far as the European Union is concerned, we have a common view on the question of unanimity of decisions on foreign policy. We think also that matters of the economic and monetary union are not yet clear and must be cleared and discussed in future. And there are certain questions concerning the revision of the Maastricht Treaty that are not yet right for decision and that is why they must be looked at by both countries.

    QUESTION:

    [Inaudible].

    PRIME MINISTER:

    We think the time is right to have another serious push at trying to reach an agreement on the Cyprus problem. I very much hope before too long that Cyprus will be able to join the European Union, and in order to ensure that that is facilitated, we need to look again to see whether or not we can reach a conclusion to the problem in Cyprus. I think the Prime Minister as well is dedicated to seeking a solution. We know it won’t be easy. We have had 29 years to discover that it is not going to be easy, but we agreed that it is well worth trying and I think there will be a concerted push to do so.

    QUESTION:

    What is the British position on the problem of Imya [phon]?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    We think it should go to the International Court of Justice, yes.

    QUESTION:

    Did you manage to find agreement on the beef problem?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    There aren’t enough people to reach agreement on the beef problem. Douglas Hogg has been discussing this in Brussels today. I understand he has made some progress, I haven’t got a full report yet so I don’t quite know how much progress has been made. But over the last few days I made some progress when I had the meeting in Moscow at the end of last week, the Foreign Secretary pursued the matter further on Monday, the Agricultural Minister today. So I think we are moving to a position that is a good deal better than it was a few days ago, but I had better get further information before I say any more.

    MR SIMITIS:

    I want to add to what Mr Major has said, that we have discussed the matter and I will ask the Greek scientists to look at the facts that the British government will present and they will decide on the basis of the facts.

  • Mr Major’s Joint Doorstep Interview with Mr Constantine Mitsotakis – 27 November 1992

    Below is the text of Mr Major’s joint doorstep interview with the Greek Prime Minister, Mr Constantine Mitsotakis, held in Athens on Friday 27th November 1992.


    PRIME MINISTER MITSOTAKIS:

    We had a very useful review of all issues and a discussion with Prime Minister Major, who was presiding over the Council of Heads of State and Government.

    We discussed all the issues that are on the agenda of the Edinburgh summit; we talked about Denmark, enlargement; we talked about the Cohesion Fund, the Structural Funds, subsidiarity; we talked about all the issues that are of interest to the Community. We talked also about former Yugoslavia and about the very interesting question for my country, Greece, that of the Republic of Skopje, and I must say that I am very satisfied with the discussion because our views are converging and we had the opportunity to go ahead with an in-depth analysis on all these issues.

    We will continue our talks tomorrow morning and I would like to grasp this opportunity in order to thank John Major for his visit which has proved extremely useful.

    PRIME MINISTER:

    Can I just add a very brief word or two to that.

    It is a very great pleasure to have the opportunity of having these discussions again with the Prime Minister. We have enjoyed our previous discussions, tonight has been very worthwhile, very fruitful and has been of considerable assistance in moving towards a satisfactory Community agreement at the meeting in Edinburgh in a few days time.

    We have, as the Prime Minister said, been able to discuss the whole range of issues, many of them in some considerable detail, as we look forward to the discussions that we have in Edinburgh.

    We have a very crowded agenda there but I think there are many areas where there is a very strong convergence of view between the United Kingdom and Greece and I look forward to nailing down those agreements at Edinburgh in a few days time.

    The Prime Minister has made clear that we will be resuming our discussions in the morning; we have enjoyed them to such an extent that we thought an 8.15 further discussion would be a very good idea tomorrow morning and I look forward to that. I think, if the Prime Minister is content, we will be happy to take a couple of questions.

    QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

    QUESTION:

    I would like to put a question to you, Prime Minister, concerning the Edinburgh summit. Does the agenda of that summit include any discussion of the Republic of Skopje issue? I would also like to ask you whether you discussed an eventual trip of our Prime Minister to Serbia.

    PRIME MINISTER:

    On the first point, we are considering precisely what the agenda at Edinburgh should be at the present. I think it very likely that the subject of the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia will be raised. It is not certain yet but it is a matter we discussed at Lisbon; it is a matter of concern we know in Greece and elsewhere and across the Community and it is very likely that we shall wish to take the views of the Prime Minister and others on this important subject.

    On the second half of the question, in terms of a visit by the Prime Minister to Serbia, that is one of the matters that I shall wish to discuss with my European colleagues and discuss again with the Prime Minister.

    QUESTION:

    Prime Minister, until now the European Community has stood by Greece in its dispute with the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia over the name issue. I would like to ask you in your capacity as President of the European Council today, do you think that at the Edinburgh summit the European Community will continue to support Greece over that issue?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    We share with the Prime Minister a wish to see a solution to this problem. I know that is the view of Prime Minister Mitsotakis – it is the view of the rest of the European Community – and we will be discussing ways to reach a satisfactory conclusion that is satisfactory right the way across the Community and right the way beyond it. Those are the matters that we will be discussing and I think that will be the same in the future as in the past.

    QUESTION:

    Influential figures like Robin O’Neal and also Lord Owen favour recognition of Macedonia at Edinburgh in order to preserve the stability of the region. Which would you think is the lesser of two evils, the instability in Macedonia or the instability of the Mitsotakis government?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    It is quite like being back in London! I am not going to get drawn down the question of internal politics in Greece. That would not be pertinent, it would not be prudent and it would not be polite. Let me just simply say that I have a great admiration for my friend the Prime Minister.

    On the first part of your question, I simply repeat what I said a moment ago: we have a shared interest in reaching a satisfactory conclusion to this problem and that interest is shared with all our Community partners.

    QUESTION:

    I would like to ask you, Sir, if you discussed tonight with the Greek Prime Minister the idea of a double name of Skopje – an internal name and an external, international one – and what you think about that?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    We discussed all these issues and we are still discussing them.