Tag: NHS

  • PMQT – 4 April 1995

    Below is the text of Prime Minister’s Question Time from 4th April 1995. Tony Newton responded on behalf of John Major.


    PRIME MINISTER:

     

    Engagements

    Q1. Mr. Robert Hughes: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 4 April.

    The Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Mr. Tony Newton): I have been asked to reply. [Hon. Members:– “Oh.”] I am grateful to Opposition Members.

    My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister is currently on an official visit to the United States.

    Mr. Hughes: Is the Leader of the House aware of the sad plight of about 3,000 haemophiliacs who have contracted hepatitis C from contaminated blood used in their ordinary treatment? Do the Government accept the overwhelming moral responsibility that exists and the case for a hardship and compensation fund? When the Prime Minister returns from America, will the Leader of the House ask him to have a word with the Secretary of State for Health and tell her to stop resisting that claim and allow justice to be done?

    Mr. Newton: The straightforward answer to the first part of the hon. Gentleman’s question is that of course I am aware of that tragic position. Indeed, I had some experience of a related one when I was Minister for Health and there was the problem of haemophiliacs with AIDS. I will, of course, do as the hon. Gentleman requests and bring his question to the attention of not only my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister but my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health.

    Mr. Knapman: I congratulate my right hon. Friend on Scotland’s continuing success in attracting inward investment. Might that in any way be prejudiced by Opposition parties’ policies with regard to devolution?

    Mr. Newton: It is certainly the case that all the signs are that Scotland has just enjoyed another record year for inward investment. I understand that it is attracting inward investment projects at the rate of about 100 a year, examples being Motorola at East Kilbride and NEC at Livingston. One thing is certain: that inward investment is coming as a result of Conservative policies and would be put off by Labour policies.

    Mr. Prescott: Can the right hon. Gentleman tell me why, if the economy is now so strong that the Prime Minister can offer tax cuts in November 1995 and November 1996, taxes are going up again on Thursday?

    Mr. Newton: The right hon. Gentleman well knows that taxes have had to be increased as part of a number of difficult decisions to bring about recovery from recession and the sustained economic growth that is now going on. As my right hon. Friend said once again at the weekend, as those policies pay off we shall seek to reduce taxes as soon as it is prudent to do so. The one thing that everyone in the country knows is that a Labour Government never have, and never will, reduce taxation.

    Mr. Prescott: Is it not the case that the Government are taking £800 a year in new taxes now, so that at the next general election the Tories can bribe us with our own money? Does the right hon. Gentleman not understand that the British people now know that, when it comes to tax, you can never trust a Tory?

    Mr. Newton: I hope that the right hon. Gentleman will reflect on two facts. The first is that, on average, households are expected to be about £250 better off this year than last, even after tax and inflation, and the second, on which I hope he will reflect, is that, if we had maintained the tax regime that we inherited from the last Labour Government, more than 1 million more people would be paying tax next year.

    Sir Patrick Cormack: Does my right hon. Friend agree that middle England is not a land that takes kindly to political correctness or positive discrimination? Will he give a firm assurance that under the Conservatives it will never have to submit to either?

    Mr. Newton: I think that I can safely give my hon. Friend that assurance in general terms, but I would want to look carefully at each specific proposition.

     

    Q2. Mr. Pearson: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 4 April.

    Mr. Newton: I have been asked to reply.

    I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. Pearson: Now that the Prime Minister has promised tax cuts in November, will the Leader of the House say whether that is a real promise or the sort of promise that the Chancellor makes on a wet night in Dudley?

    Mr. Newton: It is a point that is reflected in the fact that one in five taxpayers now pays tax at the lower rate of 20p in the pound compared with the basic rate which stood at 33 per cent. when the Labour party was in office. That point is also reflected in the fact that last year’s increased allowances for pensioners took 190,000 people out of taxation– many of them, no doubt, in Dudley.

     

    Q3. Mr. Harry Greenway: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 4 April.

    Mr. Newton: I have been asked to reply.

    I refer my hon. Friend to the answer I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. Greenway: Is my right hon. Friend aware that there are 56,000 asylum applications awaiting decision? Are not bogus asylum applications damaging to the prospects of honest and true immigrants as well as damaging to race relations? Will my right hon. Friend do something about it? [Interruption.]

    Madam Speaker: Order. The House must settle down.

    Mr. Newton: My right hon. and learned Friend the Home Secretary has already announced measures to speed up the processing of asylum applications to deal with the backlog. As a result, 7,000 more cases will be processed every year. My hon. Friend will be aware of, and no doubt welcome, the fact that my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister made it clear last weekend that there will be a new Bill in the autumn to tighten up the asylum rules further. I believe that that will be widely welcomed, as it is, as my hon. Friend said, in the interests of good race relations.

     

    Front-line Services, Sheffield

    Q4. Mr. Bill Michie: To ask the Prime Minister if he will visit Sheffield to discuss funding of front-line services.

    Mr. Newton: I have been asked to reply.

    My right hon. Friend has no plans to do so.

    Mr. Michie: Two years ago, the Prime Minister did have plans, but never arrived. When the Leader of the House answers this supplementary question, will he debate not the past but the present and future in terms of funding in Sheffield? The funding in terms of Government grant is becoming so bad that it is affecting front-line services to such a degree that the Labour party, the Conservative party and the Liberal Democrat party in Sheffield support a redetermination bid. Will the Leader of the House ask the Prime Minister to support that bid and to come to talk to the people of Sheffield–the carers, teachers and children–who are suffering under the present regime?

    Mr. Newton: I can understand why the hon. Gentleman, like many other Opposition Members, does not want to debate the past, and I will not do so–I shall come to the present. The latest figures for March 1994 show that there are, in Sheffield, nearly £8 million in council tax arrears, more than 1,200 vacant properties and unspent school balances of £5 million. Perhaps the Opposition should address those problems first.

     

    Engagements

    Q5. Mr. Barron: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 4 April.

    Mr. Newton: I have been asked to reply.

    I refer the hon. Gentleman to the answer I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. Barron: Has the Leader of the House seen the latest report of the National Federation of Housing Associations, which reveals that because of Government cuts this year, only 17,000 new homes will be built? Given that repossessions in Britain are still running at 1,000 per week, does he agree with me that the Prime Minister’s offer on Saturday of a White Paper on housing is totally inadequate for the needs of the country?

    Mr. Newton: I might pay more attention to the hon. Gentleman if his comments were a little more balanced–for example, if he had acknowledged that last year housing starts were up 13 per cent. and repossessions have fallen by more than a third since the peak in 1991. He might have added that the average mortgage is now down by £140 a month since 1990.

     

    Q6. Mr. Heald: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 4 April.

    Mr. Newton: I have been asked to reply.

    I refer my hon. Friend to the answer I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. Heald: Has my right hon. Friend had an opportunity to see the Audit Commission report on the performance of local authorities, showing that Conservative authorities provide better services at lower costs, that eight out of the top 10 most debt-ridden councils are Labour and that, typically, a Conservative council has a council tax 40 per cent. lower than a Labour council? Does that not show that Britain is better off under the Tories?

    Mr. Newton: I sense some support for my hon. Friend and I certainly wish to extend my support to him. The report ties in the indicators in the Audit Commission report with the fact that for the average band C council tax payer, Conservative councils cost people nearly 40 per cent. less than Labour councils and 25 per cent. less than Liberal Democrat councils. The fact is that Conservative councils do cost less and provide better services.

    Mr. Davidson: Does the Minister expect a vote of confidence in the Government in the Scottish local authority elections on Thursday?

    Mr. Newton: I envisage that in the Scottish local elections on Thursday people will focus on the fact that in Scotland, as in the rest of the United Kingdom, Conservative councils cost them less and give them better value for money.

     

    Q7. Mrs. Gorman: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 4 April.

    Mr. Newton: I have been asked to reply.

    I refer my hon. Friend to the answer I gave some moments ago.

    Mrs. Gorman: Will my right hon. Friend consider joining me in congratulating the Federation of Small Businesses, which voted at its annual conference to come out of the European Community? Does he agree that most good economic ideas have their origins in small businesses?

    Mr. Newton: I fall short of expressing congratulation in quite the terms that my hon. Friend seeks, but I certainly did note the resolution of the Federation of Small Businesses in Torquay, not least because I happened to be in the west country that weekend and was asked one or two questions about it. We all understand the federation’s concerns, not least about what is sometimes seen as excessive interference and over-regulation. We need to continue to address those real concerns, both by our attitude to subsidiarity in Europe and by our policies on deregulation at home.

    Mr. Winnick: In view of the Government’s deep and continuing unpopularity, can the Leader of the House tell us how far the Prime Minister is safe from internal party intrigues to change the party leadership? Does he accept that the words of loyalty he will no doubt say were used by Cabinet Ministers in 1990? Look what happened to her–she was betrayed by her Cabinet colleagues and repeatedly stabbed in the back.

    Mr. Newton: I recall something else about 1990, which is that the hon. Gentleman was talking about the deep unpopularity of the Government two years before we won the last election.

     

    Q8. Mr. Spring: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 4 April.

    Mr. Newton: I have been asked to reply.

    I refer my hon. Friend to the answer I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. Spring: Is my right hon. Friend aware of the continuing waste, bureaucracy and extravagance that mark so many Liberal and Labour local authorities? Is he aware that Suffolk county council, while protesting frugality, is spending some 30 per cent. more on its education bureaucracy than the surrounding counties–money that could be spent directly on schools and pupils?

    Mr. Newton: I was not aware of the specific figures from my neighbouring county of Suffolk. What my hon. Friend said will certainly strike a chord with many Conservative Members. The figures reflect the extremely large number of non-teaching staff compared with teaching staff, to which my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has referred on a number of occasions.

    Mr. Simpson: Will the Leader of the House explain the compelling case for a cut in taxation at a time when the Government will not fully fund the pay awards that they make, or the services that they demand, in health and education?

    Mr. Newton: The compelling case is to strike an appropriate balance between those considerations and the considerations of enlarging choice and improving our economic prospects. The Government have constantly sought to do that and it is reflected in the improvement of our public services, in the strengthening of our economy and in paving the way to cut taxes when it is prudent to do so.

    Mr. Gill: My right hon. Friend the Leader of the House clearly understands that the butchers, the bakers and the candlestick makers are fed up with regulatory overkill. Will he take this opportunity to confirm to the House that he understands that, when Government make a law, that law impacts most heavily on those who get up in the morning and make something or do something–in other words, those people who create the wealth in our nation and upon whom the rest of society depends?

    Mr. Newton: I very much agree with my hon. Friend. I repeat the answer that I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Billericay (Mrs. Gorman). There is no doubt that our emphasis on reducing unnecessary interference from Brussels through the subsidiarity theme and not least our emphasis on deregulatory measures at home–which we shall continue to drive forward–are of great importance to the business prosperity of this country.

  • PMQT – 30 March 1995

    Below is the text of Prime Minister’s Question Time from 30th March 1995.


    PRIME MINISTER:

     

    Engagements

    Q1. Mr. McKelvey: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 30 March.

    The Prime Minister (Mr. John Major): This morning, I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet and had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House, I shall be having further meetings later today.

    Mr. McKelvey: Does the Prime Minister agree that the greatest asset of the national health service is the loyalty and dedication of its staff? He will know that many NHS workers are greatly angered by the fact that they will receive pay increases of between 1 per cent. and 3 per cent. this year. It is within the Prime Minister’s power to lift the morale of 1 million people by agreeing that no one will be paid less than 3 per cent. this year. He has the power to do that. Why does he lack the commitment?

    The Prime Minister: Of course the greatest asset of the NHS is the skills of the doctors, surgeons, dentists and nurses who work in it. There is no doubt about that. The hon. Gentleman is concerned about the 3 per cent. figure, and it may be that many people get precisely that sum. He may also recall that the last Labour Government cut nurses’ pay by exactly 3 per cent.

    Mr. Renton: Did my right hon. Friend note that the question asked by many non-political speakers at yesterday’s “Britain in the World” conference was how could we expect other countries to think much of us if we evidently think so little of ourselves? While some modesty and humility is always welcome, does my right hon. Friend think that it would help British exports, and thus British jobs and morale, if politicians from all parties and the media spent rather more time praising evident British successes and less time indulging in destructive recrimination and criticism?

    The Prime Minister: My right hon. Friend may have spoken for millions of people in the country when he called for a more balanced presentation of the many virtues which exist in this country in industry and in our traditional aspects and institutions. I have no doubt that many people would wish to support them.

    Mr. Skinner: Stop whingeing.

    The Prime Minister: I am sorry that the hon. Member for Bolsover (Mr. Skinner) regards saying anything good about this country as whingeing. That says rather a lot about the hon. Gentleman.

    Mr. Blair: If, under the new nurses’ pay scheme, substantial numbers of nurses get less than the 3 per cent. which other nurses get for effectively the same job, will he accept that such a system is unfair? Will he undertake to change it?

    The Prime Minister: I cannot give that undertaking to the right hon. Gentleman. As I said a moment ago, nobody wishes to be unfair to nurses or anybody else in the health service–certainly no one in the Government. We gave nurses a review body of their own so that their interests could be looked at dispassionately, and we have scrupulously honoured the recommendations of that review body in full.

    Mr. Blair: The Prime Minister will know that the review body has pointed out that it was acting on the prompting of the Government.

    The Prime Minister indicated dissent.

    Mr. Blair: That is what the review body says in its own report. Is the Prime Minister prepared to accept a situation where substantial numbers of nurses who are doing the same job are paid substantially less than 3 per cent?

    The Prime Minister: I am sorry, but the right hon. Gentleman still does not understand the point. I shall make it to him again so that it is clearer. We have accepted the recommendations of the review body in full this year, as we have done every year in the past. The right hon. Gentleman must look at the actual offers which are being made to nurses as a result of local pay determination. The majority of those are in the order of 3 per cent. or more, and I am confident that that trend will continue. We set up the review body–which was welcomed by nurses–and it has made recommendations which I think we should stick to.

    Mr. Blair: The Prime Minister cannot have it both ways. Either he believes– [Interruption.]

    Madam Speaker: Order.

    Mr. Blair: Either the Prime Minister believes that the nurses deserve 3 per cent., in which case he should deliver it, or he is content for many of them to be paid less than that, in which case he should have the honesty to say so. May I put it to him this way: if some nurses turn out just to get a 1.5 per cent. pay increase, when they already face mortgage and tax rises and the rest, is not the danger not just of a sense of injustice among nurses, but of yet another damaging blow to the morale of the national health service?

    The Prime Minister: It is the right hon. Gentleman who is seeking to have it both ways. He and every hon. Member of this House agreed that it was right for there to be an independent pay review body for the nurses. That is what there is and we have accepted the recommendations that it has made and provided increased funding to the national health service–some £1.3 billion–so that pay awards of that sort can be met. That is the right way to deal with it; it is the way that we are dealing with it; and it is scrupulously fair. I notice that it was this Government who provided an independent pay review body for the nurses and not previous Governments.

    Mr. Harris: Has my right hon. Friend found time to read the report in The Daily Telegraph , which shows once again how Spanish fishermen are plundering stocks, especially by catching undersized fish? Taking into account the events off Canada and the report by his special advisers, under Sir Crispin Tickell, will my right hon. Friend take a personal lead in the matter and try to bring some sanity back into this whole question of conserving fish stocks and ensuring that our fishermen have a future to look forward to?

    The Prime Minister: I certainly understand and share Canada’s desire to preserve fish stocks. That is a perfectly legitimate concern and it is entirely right of Canada to seek to do so. The real issues here are allocation of the quota and enforcement–two separate, but related, issues. The allocation must clearly be resolved by negotiation. Good progress is being made and I see no reason why an accommodation cannot be struck.

    Enforcement is clearly the key and we need tough rules that are enforced. Again, I understand that we are close to a deal. I believe that Canada is right to take a tough line on enforcement, but I hope that in taking such a line she does not undermine her own good case, which exists at present. There have been discussions about trade sanctions. We have made it clear that we would strongly oppose the imposition of such sanctions.

     

    Q2. Mr. Nigel Griffiths: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 30 March.

    The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the reply I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. Griffiths: Does the Prime Minister think that the director of a company that traded illegally with a foreign power is a fit and proper person to be in his Cabinet?

    The Prime Minister: I believe that my right hon. Friend the Chief Secretary to the Treasury dealt with that matter very forcefully and to great acclaim from most of the House just a few moments ago. He has made his position absolutely clear. No evidence has been found to counter that, either by The Independent or anyone else.

    Mrs. Ann Winterton: Does my right hon. Friend recall Lord Tebbit’s definition of loyalty and commitment to a country as the side that one supports in, for example, a cricket match? Will the Prime Minister join me and this House, therefore, in cheering enthusiastically for Canada in its forthcoming fixture against Spain?

    The Prime Minister: I believe that I am right to say to my hon. Friend that, in 1868 or 1874, Canada beat England at cricket in Canada. As I said a moment or so ago, I think that Canada is right to take a tough line on enforcement. She has our support in doing that and we shall not support the imposition of trade sanctions. This is an area where a satisfactory accommodation between the sides can be achieved, and should be achieved speedily.

     

    Q3. Mr. Beith: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 30 March.

    The Prime Minister: I refer the right hon. Member to the answer I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. Beith: Has the Prime Minister seen from today’s Audit Commission figures that spending on education in secondary schools in Northumberland is lower than in any other county? As it is not possible to explain that by how the council allocates its resources because it results from the Government’s spending formula applied in a scattered rural area and the capping limit on council spending, will the Prime Minister stop pretending that there is no problem and try to do something about it?

    The Prime Minister: I think that many interesting things are thrown out by the Audit Commission report; not all of them would be very well received by the right hon. Gentleman when he actually has the opportunity to study them. On the specific matter of education, I have made the point repeatedly to the House in the past and I reiterate it today: there is a question of priorities within the education budget. I do not believe that it is right for education authorities to look, as their first priority for making savings, at the classroom teacher. That is the last place to look, not the first.

     

    Q4. Sir Peter Tapsell: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 30 March.

    The Prime Minister: I refer my hon. Friend to the answer I gave some moments ago.

    Sir Peter Tapsell: May I welcome my right hon. Friend’s reassertion yesterday of his absolute determination to continue to maintain Britain’s role as a national power in international affairs? Will he give a commitment that, at the intergovernmental conference next year, he will veto any attempt to include the pillars of foreign and home affairs in the European Union in the supranational Rome treaty?

    The Prime Minister: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving me advance notice that he planned to raise that detailed matter. I confirm that, at the IGC, what I wish to see is more effective intergovernmental co-operation between Europe’s nation states to fight cross-border crime and promote joint policies internationally. But I shall make it absolutely clear on that occasion that Europe’s foreign policy and home affairs pillars remain outside the treaty of Rome. The United Kingdom’s right of veto on those matters is important to us. It is at the heart of national sovereignty and I shall protect it at the intergovernmental conference.

     

    Q5. Mr. Dafis: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 30 March.

    The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. Dafis: Does the Prime Minister agree that it is essential that, at the Berlin climate change conference, the need for significant reductions in greenhouse gas emissions after the year 2000 is explicitly stated and that we must have a decision to negotiate a reductions protocol to that effect? Does he further agree that, if current strong rumours that the UK and the European Union are prepared to compromise with the Americans and others on that fundamental principle, we shall all stand condemned by future generations?

    The Prime Minister: The hon. Gentleman raises an important matter. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Environment will attend the Berlin conference and will call on all the developed countries to agree a figure of between 5 and 10 per cent. below 1990 levels for all greenhouse gas emissions by the year 2010. We believe that that represents both a credible and an achievable next step and demonstrates the commitment of the United Kingdom to the framework of the climate change convention. I should say to the House that the United Kingdom is on course to meet current commitments under the convention, and we have been at the forefront of international work over recent years. We were the first country to present our programme up to the year 2000, and my right hon. Friend is now leading the way in calling for agreement on a realistic target up to 2010.

    Mr. Batiste: Has my right hon. Friend seen reports in the papers this week that in the middle east seven drugs dealers were executed, but in Leeds a gang of drugs dealers burnt down the house of a black policeman? Is it not time that, in our war against drugs dealers, we treated them as the mass murderers that they are?

    The Prime Minister: I believe everyone in this country shares the distaste for drug dealers to which my hon. Friend refers. As he will know, my right hon. Friend the Lord President has been preparing a comprehensive anti-drugs strategy, and the Government have already taken a number of initiatives in line with our European and other international partners. There is no doubt about the danger of that trade, and we will do all that we can, domestically and internationally, to help to stamp it out.

     

    Q6. Mr. Janner: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 30 March.

    The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. and learned Gentleman to the reply I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. Janner: As we approach the 50th anniversary of the liberation of the Belsen concentration camp by British troops, will the Prime Minister express what I am sure is the wish of us all–that there shall never be such a tragedy again? Will he also consider whether we should not be dealing rather better with Hitler’s heirs in our own country–not least the thugs of Combat 18 and their ilk, who have been sending through the post to constituents of mine, Asians in the city of Leicester and elsewhere, racist, threatening and abusive cards and razor blades? Will he ensure that the police have the resources and the determination to deal with those awful people?

    The Prime Minister: I agree without qualification with the hon. and learned Gentleman about that. Combat 18 is a repellent organisation. The literature that it circulates is utterly disgusting, and there can be no place for its type of politics in the United Kingdom.

    As the hon. and learned Gentleman is aware, we have comprehensive anti- discrimination legislation. The Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 introduced a new imprisonable offence of intentional harassment, which I hope will give the police more powers to deal with serious racial harassment. We are also making the distribution of racially inflammatory material an arrestable offence.

    However, the best reassurance that we can give to victims is the one that the hon. and learned Gentleman mentioned, and that is to help the police to ensure that those people are caught and punished for their crimes.

  • PMQT – 28 March 1995

    Below is the text of Prime Minister’s Question Time from 28th March 1995.


    PRIME MINISTER:

     

    Engagements

    Q1. Mr. Barnes: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 28 March.

    The Prime Minister (Mr. John Major): This morning, I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House, I shall be having further meetings later today.

    Mr. Barnes: Will the Prime Minister tell us how education authorities such as Derbyshire can have millions cut off their education budgets in real terms and be expected to manage? Will he tell them how they can do that without sacking teachers, destroying education or increasing class sizes in the area? Many angry parents, teachers and governors in Derbyshire would like to know the answer to that. It is time now for the oracle to speak.

    The Prime Minister: I am sure that the hon. Gentleman would be the first one to acknowledge that the amount spent per pupil has risen over and above inflation by 50 per cent. since the hon. Gentleman’s party was last in government and looking after education. I think that he would also concede that if local authorities were prepared to make education more of a priority than they do at present and if they were determined to make teachers a priority within their education budget rather than other matters, they would be able to meet the obligations that they were required to meet.

    Mr. Walden: Will my right hon. Friend join me in welcoming the interest shown by Manchester grammar school in returning to the state sector? Will he give imaginative thought to the way in which such moves could be financed, bearing in mind that building bridges across our two-nation education system is a national priority?

    The Prime Minister: I certainly agree with my hon. Friend about the question of bridges across the education system. I certainly agree with him about the need for quality in education. I must say that I am not so enthusiastic about the Manchester proposal as my hon. Friend.

    Mr. Blair: When Sir Bob Reid, who, after all, is a supporter of rail privatisation, says that the Government’s plans are intensely bureaucratic and inordinately expensive–in short, a nightmare–should that not make any sensible Government who consider the public interest think again?

    The Prime Minister: Sir Bob has expressed these views on previous occasions.

    Mr. Meacher: Is he right?

    The Prime Minister: I shall come in a second to whether he is right. Sir Bob has always argued for a monolithic, vertically integrated railway, but he was unable to persuade us that that was the right way to proceed. As the right hon. Gentleman presumably does not know, a number of other countries that have privatised their railways have adopted precisely the same model that we have adopted, and not the model proposed by Sir Bob.

    Mr. Blair: Should not Sir Bob’s words carry compelling argument with the Government as he is a supporter of privatisation? Is this not just another item on the bill for Tory dogma? With prescription and water charges up at the weekend, taxes up next week and now the fiasco of rail privatisation, is it any wonder that the British people believe, and know, that they are worse off under the Tories?

    The Prime Minister: The soundbite came earlier this afternoon. The right hon. Gentleman refers to dogma. The Labour party has tried to smear every privatisation we have had, just as it is trying to smear this one. As it has been wrong on every occasion in the past, it is wrong again. The reality is that the Labour party is philosophically opposed to private ownership and, while Labour remains in the pockets of the railway unions, it will continue to put the unions first and the passengers last.

    Mr. Duncan Smith: Does my right hon. Friend agree that local authorities, far from complaining about what they call cuts in education, would do far better thinking carefully about the money that they have failed to raise from the rates, the community charge and the council tax? Councils such as Lambeth have arrears running at over £100 million which they have failed to collect. Are not such councils punishing pupils as a result of their incompetence?

    The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend makes a powerful point. The Leader of the Opposition referred a few days ago to truancy. What the right hon. Gentleman neglected to say was that the highest level of truancy occurs in education authorities run by the Labour party, and that the only reason we know the truancy figures is because of the performance tables which we introduced and to which the Opposition objected.

    Mr. Ashdown: In the light of the Prime Minister’s previous answers, will he nevertheless confirm that he has heard of the widespread concerns of parents about their children from governors who have been forced to sack teachers because of education cuts? Does not the right hon. Gentleman realise that, in the face of cuts in the Government’s allocation for education amounting to £50 per primary school pupil and £200 per secondary school pupil, he simply cannot dump the whole blame on to councils? Does he not realise that the country wants him to think again? Will he do so?

    The Prime Minister: Of course I understand the concerns of parents that education is properly funded, and that is why I made the point to the hon. Member for Derbyshire, North-East (Mr. Barnes) about the increase in resources under the Government in recent years. The right hon. Gentleman cannot deny the Government’s achievements in benefiting parents, pupils and teachers by changing the curriculum. Equally, he cannot deny that local authorities could do far more than they have done to seek savings without turning directly to the teacher in the classroom. What the right hon. Gentleman should be saying to people–not least his own education authority–is, “What other savings have you sought before you have gone directly to the teacher in the classroom?”

    Sir Ivan Lawrence: Would my right hon. Friend allow any member of his Front-Bench team to visit convicted IRA terrorists in English prisons and to campaign to have them returned to Northern Ireland? Would he consider such action to be tough on crime, and on the causes of crime?

    The Prime Minister: The direct answer to my hon. and learned Friend is no, I would not. He makes his case clearly.

     

    Q2. Ms Hodge: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 28 March.

    The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave some moments ago.

    Ms Hodge: Will the Prime Minister acknowledge that it is the first duty of a free media to report the truth irrespective of Government bullying? [Interruption.] Clearly, Conservative Members do not agree. Is it not time that the Prime Minister and his colleagues took heed of the advice of the Daily Mail and Sir Bernard Ingham and stopped whingeing?

    The Prime Minister: I wonder whether the hon. Lady would like to tell us on how many occasions Mr. Alastair Campbell has complained to the BBC in the past few weeks. As to her substantive question, of course I welcome truthful reporting. I always welcome it and I like seeing it.

     

    Q3. Mr. Whittingdale: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 28 March.

    The Prime Minister: I refer my hon. Friend to the answer I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. Whittingdale: Will my right hon. Friend congratulate Maldon district council, which yesterday received nearly £22 million following the transfer of its housing stock to the Plume housing association? Is he aware that that will enable the council to improve services and to continue to set the lowest council tax in Essex? Does that not demonstrate once again that Conservative councils deliver better services at a lower cost to the council tax payer?

    The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend refers to Maldon, but he could equally well have referred to a very large number of Conservative authorities, which, on balance, provide a council tax that is far lower than that of authorities run by the Labour or Liberal parties. Equally,

    I congratulate Maldon on taking advantage of the policies to bring in private finance and to provide better services generally to its council tax payers. I believe that runs right the way across the gamut of local authority services. For those people who talk about the homeless, I note the very large number of empty properties in Labour-controlled authorities in inner London and in the middle of many of our great cities.

     

    Q4. Mr. Bayley: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 28 March.

    The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. Bayley: When will the Prime Minister unequivocally back Canada in its stand against unfair and ecologically disastrous Spanish fishing practices?

    The Prime Minister: I think that the hon. Gentleman will know that my right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food will be making a statement immediately after Question Time.

     

    Q5. Mr. Cyril D. Townsend: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 28 March.

    The Prime Minister: I refer my hon. Friend to the answer I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. Townsend: During my right hon. Friend’s recent and successful visit to the middle east, did he have time to talk to Prime Minister Rabin about his country’s unwillingness to declare that it is now a nuclear power and to sign the nuclear non-proliferation treaty? Recalling my right hon. Friend’s excellent work in getting the United Nations Security Council to approve resolution 687, which called for a zone free of weapons of mass destruction in the middle east, how will that be achieved if Israel cannot be persuaded to change its mind?

    The Prime Minister: We did discuss that and a range of other matters, and I made it clear in my meetings that we believe that the future of the non-proliferation treaty is extremely important and we hope that everyone possible will ensure that it can be extended indefinitely. The indefinite and unconditional extension of that treaty at the conference in April and May would be in the best interests of everyone, not only in the middle east but in other parts of the world where there is equal difficulty in persuading participants to sign up to the treaty.

     

    Q6. Ms Church: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 28 March.

    The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave some moments ago.

    Ms Church: Would the Prime Minister like to take this public opportunity to confirm that the position of the chairman of his party is unassailable?

    The Prime Minister: I have told my right hon. Friend to take no notice whatever of the current hubbub and that it goes with the job, as do silly questions like that.

    Mr. Alexander: As we are marking the 50th anniversary of the end of the second world war this year, will my right hon. Friend look sympathetically at the amendment that was recently passed to the Pensions Bill in another place and restore to war widows the right to a war widows pension, even though they have been widowed or divorced from a second husband?

    The Prime Minister: We are considering the amendment that was passed in another place the other day and a second amendment that was also passed there and will make our decisions known when the matter returns to the House.

     

    Q7. Mr. Simon Hughes: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 28 March.

    The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. Hughes: Will the Prime Minister assure the House that when he and his Ministers decide, in the next few days, about the future of Guy’s hospital, they will take account of current circumstances, which are that a building that has just cost £154 million to build, Philip Harris house, is waiting to be used for the benefit of the health service? Will they decide to use that building and not to close an accident and emergency unit in less than four years’ time, because the circumstances that justify its continuing existence may be just the same then as they are now?

    The Prime Minister: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving me advance notice of the question that he proposed to ask this afternoon. As he said, there has been a consultation about the future of services at Guy’s and St. Thomas’s, and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State will be able to make her decisions known shortly. I know that she will take into account the views of everyone concerned and what the hon. Gentleman said, including his remarks about Philip Harris house.

  • PMQT – 21 March 1995

    Below is the text of Prime Minister’s Question Time from 21st March 1995.


    PRIME MINISTER:

     

    Engagements

    Q1. Mr. Keith Hill: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 21 March.

    The Prime Minister (Mr. John Major): This morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House, I shall be having further meeting later today.

    Mr. Hill: In his busy day, has the Prime Minister noticed that his plea for peace within the ranks has failed and that the Chancellor and Lord Tebbit are at each other’s throats again over Europe? How does he feel now that it is apparent that all sides of his party share the same view as the rest of the country–that he has no authority and is not up to the job?

    The Prime Minister: If the hon. Gentleman is concerned about differing views in Europe, I suggest that he has a look around the Benches beside him. If he seriously thinks that the deputy Leader of the Opposition, the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull, East (Mr. Prescott), agrees with the Leader of the Opposition, or that the Leader of the Opposition agrees with the hon. Member for Bolsover (Mr. Skinner), he is living in a fantasy world.

    Mr. Duncan: Does my right hon. Friend agree that most calls for more funding are really calls for higher taxation and that most calls for greater economic well-being are really calls for higher inflation? Will my right hon. Friend, therefore, undertake to continue his policy of keeping a firm grip both on inflation and public expenditure and not to do what the Opposition always seem tempted to do–cheaply to buy people’s votes with their own money?

    The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend is entirely right about the necessity of holding down public expenditure, and equally right to point out that it is simply economically illiterate to object to taxation levels and at the same time to call for higher expenditure, as the Opposition so frequently do.

    Mr. Blair: Does the Prime Minister agree with his Education Secretary, who said this morning– [Interruption.]

    Madam Speaker: Order.

    Mr. Blair rose —[ Interruption. ]

    Madam Speaker: Order; otherwise I shall have to name a Member on the Conservative Back Benches.

    Mr. Blair rose —[ Interruption. ]

    Madam Speaker: It is Jacques Arnold.

    Mr. Blair: I apologise to my hon. Friend’s dog.

    Does the Prime Minister agree with his Education Secretary who this morning admitted that in funding the teachers’ pay award some schools and authorities would face “considerable problems”?

    The Prime Minister: Of course we recognised from the outset that this year’s settlement is tough in education. We have never made any secret of that fact. We have made it clear that local authorities must choose their priorities. We believe that teachers in the classroom are a priority and should be a first priority among education authorities.

    Mr. Blair: But what does the Prime Minister say to schools and authorities that, as the Secretary of State for Education admits, do not have the reserves and balances to fund the award? If it is proven to the Prime Minister’s satisfaction that such schools and authorities exist–for example, in Tory Buckinghamshire–will he take action and intervene?

    The Prime Minister: I shall tell the right hon. Gentleman exactly what I would say to such authorities. If any local authority is thinking of cutting the number of teachers in the classroom, I would ask it what savings it had made in non-teaching aspects of education. I would ask if it has two administrators for every three teachers, as happens across the country. I would ask what administrative savings it had made. If the answer is none, I would ask, “Why have you made no savings, and why are you singling out teachers in the classroom?”

    Mr. Blair: Is not the Prime Minister aware that five out of the six authorities with the lowest administration costs are Labour–and that all are facing cuts? The right hon. Gentleman talks about non-statutory funding. His Secretary of State for Education said what that means–nursery education, youth work and school transport. Is that an option? Why does not the Prime Minister listen to the voices of parents, governors and teachers, who speak for Britain when they say that if we fail to provide properly for our schools, we are not just letting down our children but betraying our country’s future?

    The Prime Minister: We have provided more adequately for education and for choice in education than the right hon. Gentleman would ever contemplate. If he wants to know what the priorities are, I suggest that he addresses authorities–most of which are run by Labour–about the 1 million surplus school places, which cost £250 million a year, about making use of the estimated £700 million in unspent balances held by schools and about cutting bureaucracy at county hall, where they have failed to take account of the responsibilities of schools and where for every three teachers there are two support staff. Those are the questions that the right hon. Gentleman should address to education authorities. If he thinks that there are no savings to be made, I suggest that he refers to the Audit Commission report, which made it clear that better management of pay bills would save £500 million–5 per cent. of the whole pay bill.

    Mr. Heald: Does my right hon. Friend agree that regional assemblies for England would be confusing, expensive and divisive? Does he accept that people in Hertfordshire do not want to be governed from Norwich? When he exposed that policy, the Labour party fell into confusion and chaos. Will he say today that we are not going to do it?

    The Prime Minister: There certainly seems to be some confusion on the Opposition Benches about regional assemblies. Almost every statement about them that can be made has been made. As Labour examines its policy, it realises that it is the total nonsense that I pointed out some time ago.

    Mr. Prescott indicated dissent.

    The Prime Minister: The right hon. Gentleman shakes his head; clearly he does not understand that his party’s policy is nonsense. When Labour examines its policies for Scottish and Welsh assemblies in further depth, it will find precisely the same.

     

    Q2. Mr. McKelvey: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 21 March.

    The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. McKelvey: Has the Prime Minister no sense of shame at having dithered over obscene fat cat salaries, alienating low-paid workers in the health service, including nurses and midwives? Is not the right hon. Gentleman setting the scene for a summer of discontent throughout the NHS?

    The Prime Minister: The hon. Gentleman knows very well that we have funded the health service better than any previous Government. That is clearly shown by the number of people treated in the national health service, the wider range of services and the better treatment that is available.

     

    Q3. Mr. Patrick Thompson: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 21 March.

    The Prime Minister: I refer my hon. Friend to the answer I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. Thompson: Bearing in mind the fact that this is national science, engineering and technology week, has my right hon. Friend had time today to read the encouraging report from engineering employers, which states that economic recovery is developing in a way that will increase national prosperity in the longer term? Is not that a tribute to Government economic policies, and is not this the right time for young people to go for a career in engineering?

    The Prime Minister: I agree about that, and about the need to encourage more young people into engineering and more people into learning skills of that sort. That is why we established the non-vocational qualifications some time ago. In engineering and manufacturing generally exports are growing and employment is increasing; that has not happened in manufacturing generally for many years.

     

    Q4. Mr. Alton: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 21 March.

    The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. Alton: I welcome the Government’s decision to provide £1 million for the clearing of anti-personnel mines in Cambodia. Is the Prime Minister aware, however, that there are 100 million anti-personnel mines strewn around the world, and that there have been 1 million casualties and fatalities, especially among children? Does he agree that the time is ripe for an international moratorium that would bring within its scope the area- denial mines that are still shipped out of this country? Will he not agree with the terms of the early-day motion, now supported by more than 100 hon. Members of all parties, urging the Government to give a moral lead?

    The Prime Minister: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving me notice of the fact that he wished to raise a detailed question about land mines. We have neither produced nor exported anti-personnel mines for some years, and we have contributed generously to the demining programme. In July we announced an indefinite moratorium on exports from the United Kingdom of mines without a self-destruct mechanism. We shall be hoping to use the review in September of the UN weaponry convention to strengthen the protocol on the use of land mines and to ensure that its provisions gain universal support.

    Mr. Allason: Will my right hon. Friend support a measure to make it a statutory requirement that all local authorities declare in their published budgets what is and what is not a statutory requirement and a statutory area of expenditure?

    The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend suggests an ingenious method of ensuring that local authorities’ priorities are met. I shall invite my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Environment to examine it.

     

    Q5. Mrs. Bridget Prentice: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 21 March.

    The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave some moments ago.

    Mrs. Prentice: Can the Prime Minister tell us whether it is the Chancellor of the Exchequer or the Home Secretary who is right about the feelgood factor?

    The Prime Minister: The people who have most felt the feelgood factor thus far are the 600,000 people who are no longer on the unemployment register, as a result of the fall in unemployment. In terms of economic management, we are seeking to make sure that we come out of the recession of two years ago in a way that avoids laying the seeds of future difficulties, which were sown on many other occasions since the Second World War. Hence we have had to take long-term, difficult decisions; as a result we now have the best prospects of rising living standards, year after year, that we have had for many years. That will produce a very good feelgood factor.

    Mr. Rathbone: Does my right hon. Friend accept that many Conservative Members share the qualms about land mines expressed by the hon. Member for Liverpool, Mossley Hill (Mr. Alton), but that none of us will accept the fact that Liberal Democrat county councillors are not funding education as they can–particularly in East Sussex, where they resisted and voted against a Conservative amendment to the budget that would have provided the necessary funds for education in the county?

    The Prime Minister: I was not aware of the example to which my hon. Friend has drawn my attention, but the rather cavalier use of taxpayers’ money by Liberal Democrat authorities is no new phenomenon.

     

    Q6. Mr. Sutcliffe: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 21 March.

    The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. Sutcliffe: Is it not true, from what we have seen and heard, that there is no policy area apart from Northern Ireland about which the people of this country believe anything that you, Prime Minister, have to say? In education, the parents and teachers are against you. In health, the midwives have been moved to militancy. Is not the best thing that could happen to this Government who cannot agree among themselves that you should resign and that we should have an immediate election?

    Madam Speaker: Order. The hon. Gentleman is not addressing the House and the Prime Minister correctly. Would he like to try again? He has another minute.

    Mr. Sutcliffe: I apologise, Madam Speaker, if I have not spoken in the language of the House, but I am expressing what I think the majority of British people feel.

    The Prime Minister: Had the hon. Gentleman been in the House longer, he would have heard remarks like that put to me before the last general election.

    Mr. Butcher: Will my right hon. Friend publish all the evidence, some of it garnered in response to hostile questions from Opposition Members, which shows beyond any doubt whatever that a reduction in the top rate of income tax has increased the proportion of tax paid as a total from the top 10 per cent., and that any proposal to increase the top rate of income tax will produce a shortfall in revenue which can then be obtained only from middle-income earners?

    The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend sets out a matter that has been well understood for many years. I will certainly invite my right hon. and learned Friend the Chancellor to lay that information out in the House of Commons Library. It might be very instructive for the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull, East (Mr. Prescott), who is giggling on the Front Bench because he does not understand it.

  • PMQT – 9 March 1995

    Below is the text of Prime Minister’s Question Time from 9th March 1995.


    PRIME MINISTER:

     

    Engagements

    Q1. Mr. Dowd: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 9 March.

    The Prime Minister (Mr. John Major): This morning, I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet and had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House, I shall be having further meetings later today.

    Mr. Dowd: Will the Prime Minister join me, and I am sure the whole House, in sending our deepest condolences to the family of Mr. Malcolm Murray, who died in Leeds general infirmary yesterday? Does he share the anger that we feel at the fact that he was in Leeds general infirmary because he had to be flown by helicopter some 200 miles after a fruitless search for an intensive care bed in London? Does not that demonstrate conclusively that the bed closure programme that the Government are pursuing in London has gone too far? Is he aware that he can do something immediately by instructing his Secretary of State for Health to accept the recommendation of the South-East London health authority that Guy’s hospital must not close?

    The Prime Minister: This is certainly a tragic incident and I share the view that the hon. Gentleman expressed about that. I believe that the whole House will join me in extending my deepest sympathy to Mr. Murray’s family upon his death. This is a serious case and the South Thames region has set up an urgent investigation, the outcome of which we must await. The full facts of the case are not yet in front of me, but I understand that Mr. Murray required a highly specialised form of treatment with which Leeds was particularly able to help– [Interruption.] –a highly specialised form of treatment, and that was the medical decision that was taken. Beyond that, we will have to wait for the result of the inquiry.

    Mr. Neil Hamilton: Has my right hon. Friend seen that interest rates in France have had to be raised by 1.5 per cent. this week, notwithstanding the fact that– [Interruption.]

    Madam Speaker: Order. The House must come to order.

    Mr. Hamilton: Has my right hon. Friend seen that interest rates in France have had to be raised by 1.5 per cent. this week, notwithstanding the fact that inflation is virtually non-existent and that unemployment stands at 12.5 per cent.? That has been necessary in order to confirm France’s status as an economic vassal state of Germany. Is it not therefore a cause for congratulation for our Government that we were not obliged to take the same course of action this week? Should we not make more of the fact that both the Opposition parties are committed to such a ruinous policy?

    The Prime Minister: There is, indeed, a great deal of exchange rate turbulence, which has reflected itself in the interest rate increase in France, to which my hon. Friend refers. As I have told the House before, there has been a pretty massive flight into deutschmarks as a result of an unsettled international situation. That is the principal underlying reason that has led to such difficulties for the franc. As I told the House some time ago, I see no prospect of the United Kingdom returning to the exchange rate mechanism for some time. I have made that point perfectly clear. The fundamentals of the British economy are such that I am delighted that we are not suffering precisely the difficulty that France has.

    Mr. Blair: Is it true that, when Ministers proceeded with the sale of electricity shares on Monday, they already knew that the electricity regulator was actively considering announcing a cut in prices?

    The Prime Minister: There have been some distorted versions of what has happened, so I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for giving me the opportunity to set out precisely what the circumstances are.

    The fact is that Professor Littlechild did not decide to undertake his review until Monday afternoon, after trading had begun in shares in PowerGen and National Power. But, although the Treasury and the Department of Trade and Industry were aware that he was considering the possibility, he had not notified them even on Monday morning–when stock exchange trading began–that he had made any decision to go ahead.

    I should also tell the right hon. Gentleman that the Treasury took independent financial and legal advice at the end of last week on whether, in the light of the possible uncertainty, the share sale prospectus was still accurate. The legal and financial advice that it received was that, even if the issue of price controls for the regional electricity companies was reopened, that was not material to the share sale of the generating companies. [Hon. Members:– “Rubbish.”] That is the legal advice that hon. Members say is rubbish. As for the generating companies, they are subject to a wholly different basis of regulation. It was in the light of that legal and financial advice that the Treasury decided to proceed.

    Mr. Blair: That may have been the legal advice, but may I ask the Prime Minister about the duty of his Government? Will he confirm that the Government knew that the regulator was actively considering making such an announcement? That is the first point. Secondly, if they did know, does the Prime Minister not think that it would have been better to disclose the information to prospective investors?

    The Prime Minister: As the right hon. Gentleman will have heard me say just now, that was precisely the point of seeking the legal advice: to determine whether the prospectus was right. The right hon. Gentleman himself is a distinguished lawyer– [Interruption.] I suspect that, if the Government had sought legal advice on an issue of this sort and then not taken the legal advice that they had been given, the right hon. Gentleman would have been at the Dispatch Box asking why we had not taken the legal advice that we had legitimately sought and received.

    Mr. Blair: I thank the Prime Minister for his compliment about my being a lawyer, but surely the point– [Interruption.]

    Madam Speaker: Order. I expect better behaviour from Ministers.

    Mr. Blair: I cannot say that we do, Madam Speaker.

    The question relates not to the legal advice, but to the responsibility of the Government. Does the Prime Minister not think that it would have been better to disclose that information? Never mind whether the Government were legally entitled to it; does he not think that it would have been better to disclose it? Or is the short truth that a privatisation programme already damaged by boardroom excess and customer complaints is now tarnished by at best incompetence and at worst double dealing by Government?

    The Prime Minister: The right hon. Gentleman has now asked the same question three times. I answered his third question with my first answer, and I made the position clear in my second answer. Other than to get in his ritual soundbite, I am not sure why the right hon. Gentleman has asked his question a third time. The fact is, as I have said, that the Government were aware that the regulator was considering the possibility at some stage in the future. He had not notified the Treasury and the Department of Trade and Industry, even on Monday morning, of whether he had determined to proceed, and whether he had determined what his statement would be. That is the purpose of ensuring that the prospectus is right; that is why my right hon. and learned Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer took legal advice. On the basis that it was right to proceed–that the prospectus was accurate –my right hon. and learned Friend proceeded. If he had not, the right hon. Gentleman would have been standing there asking why the sale did not proceed and why the Government did not take the legal advice that they had sought in order to do so.

    Mr. Michael Spicer: On the question of exchange rate turbulence, does my right hon. Friend agree that the recent rise in the deutschmark against the pound is good for British exporters to Germany and bad for German exporters to Britain? Would it not be a bad thing if we were ever again to shadow the deutschmark?

    The Prime Minister: We are not shadowing the deutschmark and I do not anticipate that we will. At the moment the performance of British exports makes it clear that both British industry and the British currency are performing well.

    Mr. Ashdown: Why does the Prime Minister not cut the legal waffle? The real question is not what is legally possible: it is what is right. Is the Prime Minister proud that his Government had to hoodwink the public to get them to buy their electricity shares?

    The Prime Minister: The right hon. Gentleman is not a distinguished lawyer. If he lets fly like that I hope that he is never sitting down where he has to take a cool, calm decision of what is in the national interest. Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman would care to read the three answers that I gave to the right hon. Member for Sedgefied (Mr. Blair). Perhaps upon several readings of them he will know the answer to his question.

    Mr. Congdon: Does my right hon. Friend agree that devolving power to schools and hospitals has led to improved educational standards and more patients being treated? Would the imposition of an unnecessary layer of regional government harm that success?

    The Prime Minister: I believe that it most certainly would. There are forms of devolution that I favour, most notably devolution down to the family and to the local community so that they can make their own decisions. We are certainly not committed to regional assemblies. There seems to be some confusion among the Opposition as to whether they are. On Sunday the right hon. Member for Sedgefield ( Mr. Blair) said:

    “We are not committed to regional assemblies.”

    The deputy leader of the Labour party said:

    “No, I don’t say that is the position.”

    There seems to be some confusion about that on the Opposition Benches.

     

    Q2. Mr. Burden: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 9 March.

    The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. Burden: When the number of full-time employees in the civil service has fallen by 29,000 in the past five years and the number on temporary contracts has grown by 82 per cent. in the same period, why are managers in the Employment Service being encouraged to sack temporary workers rather than let them have employment rights? Does the Prime Minister not realise that constant job insecurity is one of the biggest factors preventing any kind of feel good factor?

    The Prime Minister: If the hon. Gentleman took a wider view rather than being concerned with the point that he mentions, he would also have mentioned the dramatic fall in unemployment in every region of the United Kingdom. Self-evidently, work loads in Departments fluctuate, and by limiting periods of casual employment Departments are obliged to fill permanent vacancies with permanent staff, as they should. That is what is happening in the Department of Employment.

     

    Q3. Mr. Bellingham: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 9 March.

    The Prime Minister: I refer my hon. Friend to the answer I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. Bellingham: Will my right hon. Friend find time today to consider those seven schools in west Norfolk that have become grant- maintained? If he visits those schools he will find high morale and excellent motivation and commitment. Is it any wonder that more and more Members on the Labour Front Bench want to send their children to grant- maintained schools, and is it any wonder that the public find that grossly hypocritical?

    The Prime Minister: I am delighted to hear that there are seven grant-maintained schools in my hon. Friend’s constituency. I hope that there will be more in every constituency in the future. Education is an important ladder that helps people to raise themselves to a higher standard of living. Grant-maintained schools offer a wide choice, which I commend to everyone and congratulate everybody on taking. I trust that everybody will ensure that it is open to all who wish to have it.

    Mr. Enright: In spite of the headlong rush into vegetarianism, does the Prime Minister agree with Bob Reid, the former chairman of British Rail, that he would rather put money into a butcher’s shop than into rail privatisation?

    The Prime Minister: I think that the hon. Gentleman should have heard what else Sir Bob said. He also said:

    “I do believe that privatisation is right.”

    The hon. Gentleman failed to mention that.

     

    Q4. Mr. Lidington: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 9 March.

    The Prime Minister: I refer my hon. Friend to the reply I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. Lidington: Although I welcome my right hon. Friend’s efforts to secure peace in Northern Ireland, does he agree that, until terrorism has been eradicated, it is right that we should continue to support the Prevention of Terrorism (Temporary Provisions) Act 1989 to secure the protection of our fellow citizens in every part of the United Kingdom?

    The Prime Minister: I do agree with that. As my right hon. and learned Friend the Home Secretary made clear yesterday, we shall retain the Prevention of Terrorism (Temporary Provisions) Act 1989 as long as the powers are needed for the protection of the public in Great Britain and in Northern Ireland. I should add that we have accepted independent advice that all of the powers in the Act continue to be necessary and justified. My right hon. and learned Friend made that clear to the House yesterday.

  • PMQT – 23 February 1995

    Below is the text of Prime Minister’s Question Time from 23rd February 1995.


    PRIME MINISTER:

     

    Engagements

    Q1. Mr. Watson: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 23 February.

    The Prime Minister (Mr. John Major): This morning, I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet and had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House, I shall be having further meetings later today.

    Mr. Watson: Yesterday, the Prime Minister announced detailed plans for a legislative assembly in Northern Ireland. Does he understand that, by doing so, he has conceded that power can and should be devolved to each of the constituent countries of the United Kingdom, precisely because each of those countries is distinct and different? When can we expect framework documents that meet the clearly expressed demands for a Welsh Assembly and a Scottish Parliament from the people of those countries?

    The Prime Minister: I do not accept the hon. Gentleman’s parallel. There are a range of distinct differences between the position faced in Northern Ireland and elsewhere in the UK.

    Mr. Watson: What are they?

    The Prime Minister: With your permission, Madam Speaker, I shall tell the hon. Gentleman what those differences are. In Northern Ireland, the Assembly will not be tax raising. The Assembly proposed for Scotland would be. In Northern Ireland, there has been a sectarian divide of remarkable proportions for years. That does not exist elsewhere. In Northern Ireland, neither of the parties can form part of the UK Government and lead that Government. That does not apply in any other part of the UK. In Northern Ireland, because of its history, there has been an Assembly in the past. That does not apply elsewhere. In Northern Ireland, a part of the population may wish to form part of a foreign country. That does not apply anywhere else. Those are some of the differences. I can stretch that list to the corner of the Chamber and back again.

     

    Q2. Mr. Hawkins: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 23 February.

    The Prime Minister: I refer my hon. Friend to the answer I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. Hawkins: Does my right hon. Friend agree that, where councils can be described as mean-minded cocktails of political correctness, inefficiency, bureaucracy and waste, that is a matter for condemnation? Does he further agree that councils like Labour Blackpool and socialist Lancashire have been accurately so described by Mr. Leo McKinstry, a recent close adviser to Labour Front-Bench spokesmen?

    The Prime Minister: I am not always apt to accept the words of Labour spokesmen, either past or present, but, on this occasion, I am prepared to make an exception and to agree with Mr. McKinstry.

    Mr. Blair: Does the Prime Minister agree with the director of the Gas Consumers Council that, although the City may view the £1 billion profit of British Gas as reasonable, consumers will take a different view?

    The Prime Minister: I think that consumers wish to see the lowest possible gas price. Consumers will also be pleased with the fact that the gas price has fallen by something over 20 per cent. since privatisation. They will welcome the fact that the Gas Consumers Council represents gas consumers’ interests and deals with complaints. I much prefer profits to losses, provided that there is a good service for customers, and that the price, which the regulator seeks to determine, is right. Profits yield taxes for meeting our public services. In the past, these same public utilities have drained public resources through subsidy.

    Mr. Blair: Just on prices, gas prices fell in the three years before privatisation. They have risen in real terms since 1979. They rose last year in real terms, and they will rise again next year. [Interruption.] They rose last year in real terms, and they will rise again. [Interruption.]

    Madam Speaker: Order. Both sides of the House must cool down. I want to hear what the right hon. Gentleman has to say.

    Mr. Blair: Is that not the contrast between pay excesses at the top and pay cuts and redundancies for the rest, between vast monopoly profits and a tide of consumer complaints? Let me tell the Prime Minister and the Conservative party– [Interruption.] Yes, pay excess at the top and salary cuts for the rest. I tell them, until– [Interruption.] I see the yobbos are out in force today. We will continue to speak for the British people on this issue. Until those companies are properly regulated in the public interest, they will continue to be seen, rightly, as the unacceptable face of privatisation.

    The Prime Minister: The right hon. Gentleman rather dashed around the dates in order to make the case that he put before the House. As he knows, at the time of privatisation we put in a regulator to ensure that customers get the best deal possible. Since privatisation, prices have fallen by over 20 per cent. for domestic consumers, even after allowing for inflation. That is the reality. It is also the reality that, for many years while they were in the public sector, the nationalised industries cost the British taxpayer £50 million a week in subsidies. Now they are yielding money for the Exchequer to deal with public services and other matters. The right hon. Gentleman knows that that is the case. He knows that a more efficient service is being provided, and he has offered no alternative whatsoever.

    Mr. Mark Robinson: Will my right hon. Friend take time out of his busy schedule to find the right hon. Member for Yeovil (Mr. Ashdown) and to tell him that there is still time for Liberal Democrat-controlled councils, including Somerset, to set aside some of their pet projects and to put children’s education first?

    The Prime Minister: I have no objection to raise at the absence of the right hon. Member for Yeovil (Mr. Ashdown) and I am sure that my hon. Friend’s message for the right hon. Gentleman was taken on board by his right hon. Friend the Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Mr. Beith) and will be faithfully relayed to him.

    Mr. Beith: May I have instead a message for all those people whose incomes are just above the level at which they would qualify for free prescriptions and whose chronic illnesses are not on the list which would qualify them for free prescriptions? Those people now have to pay 26 times more for prescriptions than they did in 1979. Is that a fair rate of inflation for such a vulnerable group of people?

    The Prime Minister: I can give the right hon. Gentleman a message in addition, rather than instead. As he knows, over 80 per cent. of prescriptions are dispensed free. Pensioners, pregnant women, children and those on low incomes all have their prescriptions free. A total of 333 million free prescriptions are dispensed every year. I believe that it is fair that those who can afford to pay should do so.

    Even after the increase that has been made, the prescription charge will be well below the average cost of medicines to the national health service. The resources raised from that charge, paid for by people such as the right hon. Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed, myself and many others, are enough to pay for 75,000 hip replacements, 33, 000 heart valve replacements or 235,000 cataract operations. That is the reality. The money does not go to the Exchequer: it is made available to help increase the resources for the health service to meet the needs of people.

    Mr. Barry Porter: In the document published yesterday, the Prime Minister said that he cherished the Union, and he went on to say in his statement that he was a Unionist. Will he take every opportunity to reinforce, underline and emphasise that commitment?

    The Prime Minister: I believe that the efforts that the Government have been making to try to ensure that the strife and difficulties that have taken place in part of the United Kingdom for so long are brought to an end is a clear and compelling reason for my hon. Friend to accept what I said yesterday.

     

    Q3. Mr. Hain: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 23 February.

    The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. Hain: Did the Prime Minister sanction the Minister for Health telling the BBC’s “PM” programme last night that the prescription charge increase would help to finance the nurses’ pay award? Does he accept that there is public disgust at the way that the news of the increase–a savage tax on the sick–was sneaked out while the House was uniting on Ireland? Does it not prove that the Tories are the party of high tax and low cunning?

    The Prime Minister: When the hon. Gentleman stretches his arguments to such a length, I am tempted to remind him that it was a Labour Government who first introduced prescription charges and a Labour Government who reintroduced prescription charges after they had been abolished and that only one half of the people who get free prescriptions today enjoyed them under a Labour Government. Perhaps the next time that the hon. Gentleman talks about prescription charges, he will make those points clear as well.

     

    European Central Bank

    Q4. Sir Teddy Taylor: To ask the Prime Minister if he will raise at the next meeting of the European Council the level of contributions by member states to the administrative costs of the proposed European central bank.

    The Prime Minister: Although the administrative costs of the proposed European central bank will be of concern to the Government if the bank is established, the relevant provisions of the Maastricht treaty are not yet in force and are unlikely to be so for some years to come.

    Sir Teddy Taylor: As the European Monetary Institute, which is the embryo central bank, on 6 February levied a capital charge on national banks of £500 million, including £75 million paid by the Bank of England, is the Prime Minister aware that some consider, rightly or wrongly, that the process of monetary union from which we are only partially exempt will forge ahead?

    As many people consider that we are now near the irreversible end on Europe, would the Prime Minister, whose integrity I genuinely greatly respect, consider whether it might be appropriate to ask the people of Britain if this is the way that they want to proceed? Would not such a referendum now help to resolve the damaging splits on both sides of the House and give the Prime Minister real authority at the 1996 intergovernmental conference?

    The Prime Minister: On my hon. Friend’s first point, let me assure him that, if the House wishes, we have a full, not partial, exemption from monetary union. The opt-out which I secured at Maastricht, approved by this House, provides that we will not enter a single currency at any time unless we take a specific decision to do so. That is not a partial but a complete exemption. As to the money made available to the EMI, to which my hon. Friend referred, that which has been provided by the Bank of England will be returned when the EMI is, in due course, liquidated. It is not a non- returnable payment.

    On my hon. Friend’s third point, a single currency of course raises serious political, economic and other issues. I have never ruled out a referendum and, again on this occasion, I do not rule out a referendum, but I believe that whether or not it is appropriate is something that we would need to consider at the time.

     

    Engagements

    Q5. Mr. Ronnie Campbell: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 23 February.

    The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Gentleman to the answer I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. Campbell: Is the Prime Minister aware that Richard Budge, who now owns the vast majority of the British coal industry, last week told miners that they would have to take a three-year pay freeze at the same time as awarding himself £50,000? How does that go with the Prime Minister’s classless society?

    The Prime Minister: I was not aware of what Mr. Budge said to the miners, but I will make myself aware. I hope that what the hon. Gentleman has just said will prove to be more accurate than what he said across the Floor of the House about Trafalgar House and Northern Electric a few days ago.

    Mr. Trimble: In his statement yesterday, the Prime Minister placed great emphasis on the right of the people of Northern Ireland to decide their own future. In the context of his proposals, will he give an undertaking that, if at some future date the people of Northern Ireland express a wish to become a part of the United Kingdom on the same basis and with the same benefits and the same burdens as everyone else, he will give effect to that wish?

    The Prime Minister: As I have said to the hon. Gentleman, we are asking the parties in Northern Ireland and the people in Northern Ireland to see whether they can reach a consensus on what they believe their future should be and how they would wish to deal with that future. That is the whole purpose of the framework document. If the hon. Gentleman and the political parties across Northern Ireland would come forward with that proposition, we would consider it in precisely the same way.

  • PMQT – 21 February 1995

    Below is the text of Prime Minister’s Question Time from 21st February 1995.


    PRIME MINISTER:

     

    Engagements

    Q1. Mr. Hutton: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 21 February.

    The Prime Minister (Mr. John Major): This morning, I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House, I shall be having further meetings later today.

    Mr. Hutton: In the light of today’s announcement that the chairman of the National Westminster bank has awarded himself a 35 per cent. pay increase, and the news that the seven wise men appointed by the Confederation of British Industry to provide new guidelines on executive pay have themselves shared more than £4 million in pay and tax this year, does the Prime Minister think that it is time that he joined the British public in condemning those latest examples of executive greed in Britain’s boardrooms?

    The Prime Minister: As the hon. Gentleman will know, when excessive and unjustified pay increases have been agreed I have condemned them–and condemned them from the Dispatch Box on a number of occasions. Where the hon. Gentleman and I disagree is on whether, in the private sector, it is right for the Government to institute a pay policy both at the top–as the hon. Gentleman would clearly like–and with minimum pay controls at the bottom, as the Labour party would like.

     

    Q2. Mr. Evennett: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 21 February.

    The Prime Minister: I refer my hon. Friend to the answer I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. Evennett: Does my right hon. Friend agree that neighbourhood noise nuisance and noise pollution are a real and growing problem in today’s society? Will he urge our right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Environment to speed up his inquiry into the problem, and advance positive suggestions for its alleviation as soon as possible?

    The Prime Minister: I agree with my hon. Friend that noise pollution is a nuisance. I am sometimes inclined to think that it is a particular nuisance at 3.15 pm on Tuesdays and Thursdays. [Interruption.]

    Madam Speaker: Order.

    The Prime Minister: I have no doubt about the extent of nuisance that is caused to many people, and the Department of the Environment is examining that now. I hope that we shall have some proposals on which to negotiate in the next few weeks, and I shall be pleased to hear the views of not only my hon. Friend, but anyone else who has views to offer on the issue.

    Mr. Blair: Will the Prime Minister confirm as a matter of fact that, since the internal market reforms in the health service, the costs of its administration have risen by over £1,000 million?

    The Prime Minister: The right hon. Gentleman will know–for the Socialist Health Association will have told him–that improved internal administration is necessary, not least because of the lack of financial control that existed before.

    Mr. Blair: Is not the problem the difference between what Ministers say about the health service and people’s experience of it? [Interruption.] Conservative Members would do well to listen to their constituents.

    Is not the problem the fact that people who see wards, and sometimes whole hospitals, facing merger or closure would prefer that £1,000 million to be spent not on more accountants and company cars but on beds, nurses and patient care?

    The Prime Minister: I am intrigued that the right hon. Gentleman has referred to what the public say. He may have seen the recent “British Social Attitudes Survey”, which makes it clear that, since our reforms, the number of people satisfied with the national health service has leapt by another 20 per cent., and that nine out of 10 people think that the national health service is satisfactory or better.

    He may also have seen the recent survey by doctors, which found that the overwhelming majority felt that health needs were being better met under the reforms than previously, and that a 2:1 ratio felt that competition among hospitals had improved service. That is the view of the public who use the service and of the doctors who run the service, both of whom have a greater and more in-depth knowledge of it than the right hon. Gentleman.

    Mr. Blair: I have just one question for the Prime Minister: if the service is so good, why did the deputy chairman of the Conservative party ask before Christmas, in the interests of the Conservative party, for zero media coverage of the health service?

    The Prime Minister: I want a lot of coverage and I shall tell the right hon. Gentleman why–so that we can refer to the 8 million patients in total who are treated each year, to the 119,000 cataract operations, to the 333 million free prescriptions, and to the growth of the national health service over the past few years. I might also remind the right hon. Gentleman not only that more people are treated and that they are better treated, but that a wider range of service is available to the NHS today than ever before. Before he and his colleagues doubt the Government’s commitment to the health service, they should consider the additional funding that we have provided, and recall that Labour were the only Government ever to cut resources to the NHS.

     

    Q3. Mr. Fabricant: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 21 February.

    The Prime Minister: I refer my hon. Friend to the answer I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. Fabricant: My right hon. Friend will know that I am a member of the Select Committee on National Heritage and that it is considering the future of the British film industry. Is my right hon. Friend aware that Mr. Ken Loach, an English director, is today premiering his new film, which champions the cause of nationalisation on behalf of Labour’s Defend Clause IV group? Is my right hon. Friend aware that that film will be a nostalgic romp, looking at the nationalised car industry and the nationalised steelyards, and that it will possibly feature a romantic look at Red Robbo? Will my right hon. Friend be nominating that film for an Oscar?

    The Prime Minister: I very much doubt that I will be nominating the film for an Oscar, but it seems to be the sort of film that deserves a wide circulation. There is no doubt that the right hon. Member for Sedgefield (Mr. Blair) is right to wish to abolish clause IV from his party’s constitution. The only matter of surprise is that so many people in the 1990s still disagree with that obvious and worthy cause. The question is whether the right hon. Gentleman will succeed, and the answer is that of course he will, because he will have the support of the unreconstructed trade unions in doing so.

    Mr. Salmond: May I offer the Prime Minister a chance actually to do something about fat cat salary increases? Some thousands of small shareholders in British Gas, supported by the staff, are going to the annual general meeting in two months’ time with a motion to cut the outrageous pay increase of Mr. Cedric Brown. Does that motion carry the Prime Minister’s support or not?

    The Prime Minister: I have made it absolutely clear to the hon. Gentleman and to others that, if one puts an industry in the private sector, it must make its decisions in the private sector. That applies to British Gas, as to other companies.

     

    Q4. Mr. John Greenway: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 21 February.

    The Prime Minister: I refer my hon. Friend to the answer I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. Greenway: Does my right hon. Friend agree that the United Kingdom livestock industry leads Europe, both in terms of the quality of meat production, and in standards of animal welfare? Will his Government continue to press for higher welfare standards across Europe and, at the same time, uphold the rule of law in Britain, so that farmers and haulage firms can go about their legitimate business, free from the constant disruption of animal rights activists?

    The Prime Minister: I agree with both my hon. Friend’s propositions. There is no doubt about the need to maintain law and order, whatever the cause, where the law has been broken. As I have said, legally and practically, we need to work at Community level if we seriously want to bring the standards of animal welfare across the European Union up to the standards in this country. That is what my right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food is seeking to do, and I hope and believe that he will be successful.

     

    Q5. Mr. Matthew Taylor: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 21 February.

    The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. Taylor: What advice does the Prime Minister have for the governors of schools such as St. Agnes in my constituency which has seven teachers to cover the seven age groups in the school and who are now having to decide whether to make one of those staff redundant because of the failure to meet the teachers’ pay increase? Should the school engage in those redundancy procedures now, or should it wait a few weeks to see whether the Secretary of State for Education comes up with the goods in her argument with the Chancellor of the Exchequer?

    The Prime Minister: I think, perhaps, the first thing the governors should do is to examine whether their education authority has its priorities right in determining where the money that has been allocated to it has gone. Then, they might look at how many surplus places there might be in that education authority. I suggest then that they look at the balances in the education authority. When and if they are absolutely satisfied that the money is being spent properly, perhaps they can assure the hon. Gentleman of that. Nothing that the hon. Gentleman has said has convinced me that that is so in this case.

    Sir James Kilfedder: Is it not manifestly unfair and totally undemocratic that I was not consulted, briefed or spoken to at any stage during the drawing up of the draft document? Does not the Prime Minister feel that, in view of the involvement through Dublin of the Social Democratic and Labour party in the drafting of the document and in view of the fact that Her Majesty’s Government, through their representatives, have been talking to the political wing of the terrorists, that this is a contemptuous way to deal with Unionist Members of Parliament? Surely, when the Prime Minister speaks directly to the people of Northern Ireland, they will remember this.

    The Prime Minister: There has been widespread consultation. It is not the case that other parties have been involved in the drafting of the document that is to be produced. As my hon. Friend will know, the document is for consultation and consideration with my hon. Friend, with representatives from all the political parties in the House and with people right across Northern Ireland. What we are seeking to do, as we were asked to do by the political parties, is to set down some ideas for consideration, discussion and negotiation between the political parties. When and if they are able to reach agreement, we will carry the matter forward. The objective that I have is the same as that which I know my hon. Friend has and that is to ensure that what has been thus far a ceasefire is able to be turned into a permanent peace for the well-being of all the people in Northern Ireland, including my hon. Friend’s constituents, whom he represents so well.

    Mr. Maginnis: Does the Prime Minister agree that a well-directed and well-planned approach towards a practical solution to Northern Ireland’s problems would be better than a never-ending debate about some sort of theoretical process–the sort of debate that has gone on for 10 years since the signing of the Anglo-Irish Agreement–which did not deliver peace, stability and reconciliation? Will the Prime Minister undertake to read and to study my party’s document entitled “A Practical Approach to Problem Solving in Northern Ireland”, with a view to arriving at a solution and not continuing this theoretical and futile debate for yet another 10 years?

    The Prime Minister: I share with the hon. Gentleman the wish not to have a futile debate. The way to ensure a constructive debate is to come together and discuss the ideas that are about and that are on the table. Ideas have been produced at the request of the political parties. As it happens, I received the document in the hon. Gentleman’s hands last evening, and I have read it this morning. I have no doubt that other documents will be produced. One has already been provided by the leader of the Democratic Unionist party. Further documents may be prepared.

    What is necessary; what the obligation owed, I believe, to the people in Northern Ireland who want a permanent peace, is for all of us–the Government, the hon. Gentleman, other hon. Members and the people of Northern Ireland–to make sure that those matters are examined, discussed, considered, and decisions reached that will enable us to move forward into a permanent peace. That is what I wish to seek, and my mind is open to the right mechanism to ensure that we achieve it. But what I am determined is that we do seek to move forward to try and ensure that the chance that is in our hands–we may not be able to hold it–that the chance of peace that is in our hands should not slip away because we are not prepared to examine the matter, to talk about the matter, to consider the matter, and to reach the conclusions that the hon. Gentleman wishes to see reached.

  • PMQT – 14 February 1995

    Below is the text of Prime Minister’s Question Time from 14th February 1995.


    PRIME MINISTER:

     

    Engagements

    Q1. Mrs. Ray Michie: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 14 February.

    The Prime Minister (Mr. John Major): This morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House, I shall be having further meetings later today.

    Mrs. Michie: Last Tuesday, the Prime Minister said that a single currency was a constitutional issue. Last Thursday, the Chancellor said that it was not. Will the right hon. Gentleman now tell us who is right?

    The Prime Minister: I have told the hon. Lady, I think, directly, and many people in the House precisely what the position is as far as a single currency is concerned, and I have also told people exactly how we propose to approach it. There will be no single currency involving the United Kingdom in 1996 or 1997. When and if it arises at a later stage, whether 1999 or thereafter, we will examine both the economic implications and the other implications, and we will then make a judgement on the national interest.

    Mr. Nigel Evans: Will my right hon. Friend confirm that the Government are determined to protect the country from terrorism, drug smugglers and a tidal wave of economic refugees into this country?

    The Prime Minister: I should say to my hon. Friend that in recent years we have seen a very welcome improvement in race relations in this country and I do not wish to see that put at risk in any way. Raising fears about immigration tends to put that at risk. For that reason, I am entirely determined to maintain our fair but firm immigration policies, and that means that we shall retain our border controls.

    Mr. Blair: Following the Prime Minister’s welcome commitment last Thursday to reducing inequality, may we now put it to the test? As the national electricity grid is an absolute monopoly subject to no competition, will the right hon. Gentleman act against the excesses of the few regional electricity chiefs who stand to make £50 million out of share options on the back of it?

    The Prime Minister: I have to say to the right hon. Gentleman that I find much of his opposition to share options rather synthetic since a good deal of his leadership campaign was financed out of the proceeds of share options.

    Mr. Blair: So the right hon. Gentleman is prepared to do nothing on that. Let me now put this to him: as there still remain about 1 million long-term unemployed and the Government are proposing a £50 million cut in help to the unemployed, will he therefore act in respect of that?

    The Prime Minister: I notice that the right hon. Gentleman did not respond to the earlier point. As for his general concerns about poverty, perhaps I can help him by filling in some of the facts that he overlooks. As he will know, and as there are ample statistics to show, the vast majority of people are better off. Average income has risen by more than one third since 1979, the average income of all economic groups and family types has risen, vulnerable groups have been protected and average incomes are up by more than 10 per cent. for poorer pensioners, and up for the unemployed as well as for those in full-time work. Those are the results of the Government’s actions, and they exceed by far the results achieved by any previous Government.

    Mr. Blair: So the Prime Minister is prepared to do nothing about that either. Whatever he says about reducing inequality, he will do nothing about greed at the top and nothing about protecting the unemployed at the bottom. Are the British people not right to conclude, therefore, that his commitment to reducing inequality will be seen in time as just one more easily made, easily broken Tory promise?

    The Prime Minister: I look forward to the day when the right hon. Gentleman listens to the answer before continuing with his question. As “Social Trends” is a publication often cited by Opposition Members, perhaps they will take notice of the information available in the latest edition, which states that the income of recently retired pensioners has increased by just over a half in real terms since 1981, and the real income after tax of a lone parent on the lowest decile of female earnings and with two children rose by 50 per cent. between 1981 and 1993. Why do we never hear about the reality of what has happened rather than the accusations without base which come from the right hon. Gentleman?

    Mr. Marlow: If European institutions produce measures to dismantle our external immigration controls, and those measures are subsequently supported by the European Court, how will my right hon. Friend maintain our external controls?

    The Prime Minister: As I told my hon. Friend the Member for Ribble Valley (Mr. Evans) a moment or so ago, we believe in our right to maintain controls. My predecessor set out our determination and received a solemn declaration to that effect some time ago. Let me make it clear that we shall argue strongly for the maintenance of that position and shall take whatever steps are necessary to that end. I will tell my hon. Friend the Member for Northampton, North (Mr. Marlow) about that declaration: it was solemnly entered into by all the Heads of Government of the other European countries. They pledged their word, and I intend that they will keep it.

     

    Q2. Mr. Cousins: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 14 February.

    The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. Cousins: Is the Prime Minister aware that, following the Government’s deal with Trafalgar House to kill off Northern Electric this morning, the resulting free-for-all in electricity companies has caused electricity shares to rise by 10 per cent. in a Valentine’s day orgy on the stock exchange, while there has been a Valentine’s day massacre of job security in the north? Does the right hon. Gentleman agree with the Confederation of British Industry that growing unfairness in society affects not only jobs but competition and business?

    The Prime Minister: As the hon. Gentleman will have observed over the last couple of years, competition in business has been creating jobs, not losing them, which is why unemployment has dropped by more than half a million.

    Mr. Foulkes: Rubbish.

    The Prime Minister: The hon. Member for Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley (Mr. Foulkes) has apparently not noticed the drop of half a million in unemployment, so I will tell him that it has dropped right across Scotland, which he cares about, as well as in England, in Wales and in Northern Ireland. If the hon. Gentleman has not understood even that, I can understand why he is on the Opposition Benches–because he understands nothing.

     

    Q3. Lady Olga Maitland: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 14 February.

    The Prime Minister: I refer my hon. Friend to the answer I gave some moments ago.

    Lady Olga Maitland: Has my right hon. Friend seen the report that tourism in Northern Ireland has doubled since the ceasefire was announced? Does he agree that that reflects in an important way the outcome of the peace process?

    The Prime Minister: I am aware of the remarkable increases in tourism. There have also been remarkable changes in the life styles of the people in Northern Ireland and in the success of large and small businesses in Northern Ireland. I believe that those are results of the ceasefire, which I hope we shall be able to turn into a permanent peace.

     

    Q4. Mr. Jim Cunningham: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 14 February.

    The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. Cunningham: Does the Prime Minister recall that last Thursday in the House he gave an undertaking to commit the Government to fighting injustice and inequality? Will he now, as a first step, take the opportunity to reintroduce wages councils and, as a second step, abolish the jobseeker’s allowance?

    The Prime Minister: I will not give the hon. Gentleman that undertaking, because I do not believe that wages councils acted in the interests of people who were low paid. I believe that they kept a lot of people out of work who might otherwise have been in work. I accept that the Government have a responsibility to help the poor, and we have sought to do that. That is why extra help of more than £1 billion since 1988, over and above inflation, has been provided to help low-income families. That is the point that I invite the hon. Gentleman and his right hon. and hon. Friends to concentrate upon.

     

    Q5. Mr. Jacques Arnold: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 14 February.

    The Prime Minister: I refer my hon. Friend to the answer I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. Arnold: Is my right hon. Friend aware of the decision of the parents of pupils at 88 schools in Kent who voted overwhelmingly for the schools to become grant maintained? Will he congratulate those Kentish parents on their choice? Does he welcome the fact that they had the choice in the first place–a choice exercised by the Leader of the Opposition and a number of Labour Back Benchers–or does he consider that choice to be wicked?

    The Prime Minister: I believe that every parent should have the right to choose what is best for his or her children, and I have no criticism of any parent who does so. I simply ask that all parents should have the same choice.

     

    Q6. Mr. Watson: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 14 February.

    The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. Watson: What does the Prime Minister suggest that I could do to help my constituent, Jane Pepper, who gave up a secure job in the civil service last year to attend an access course for university? She secured three offers of places, but is now having to give them up because she loses £5,000 as a result of the Government’s penny pinching in cutting the mature students’ allowance. Leaving aside the waffle that the Prime Minister usually gives us, what advice can he give to Jane Pepper and the thousands of other people who missed out on higher education the first time around and are now having the door slammed in their faces again?

    The Prime Minister: The hon. Gentleman knows that the number of people going on to further and higher education has increased dramatically. When the hon. Gentleman’s party left office, one in eight of our children went to university. The figure is now one in three, and it is increasing.

     

    Q7. Mr. John Marshall: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 14 February.

    The Prime Minister: I refer my hon. Friend to the answer I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. Marshall: Does my right hon. Friend agree that the rather disappointing performance of the English cricketers in Australia illustrates the need for more competitive sport in our schools?

    The Prime Minister: I should certainly like to see more competitive sport in our schools, and we intend to ensure that there is more. Beyond that, we must ensure that there is a much better sports environment through the clubs, so that there is a proper throughput from school to club level and to more senior levels in sport. I intend to do what I can to bring that about.

     

    Q8. Ms Jowell: To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 14 February.

    The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave some moments ago.

    Ms Jowell: Is the Prime Minister aware that last week a senior manager at Guy’s hospital in London had to telephone 24 hospitals to arrange cover for patients needing acute and intensive care beds? Does he accept that patients’ lives are at risk because of the shortage of beds in London? Will he instruct the Secretary of State for Health that no further bed closures should be allowed?

    The Prime Minister: If the hon. Lady had wished me to comment on that, no doubt she would have given me earlier notice of the question. Often enough, there have been cases in which a direct answer could have been given if information had been provided, and often enough I have examined matters subsequently and found them to be a touch different from what had been suggested on the Floor of the House. I have no doubt that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health will have heard what the hon. Lady had to say.

    Mr. Michael Brown: Is not the situation with regard to the single currency quite straightforward–that if my right hon. Friend remains Prime Minister we will not have a single currency, but if the Leader of the Opposition becomes Prime Minister we will?

    The Prime Minister: As I have indicated to my hon. Friend on previous occasions, I will make a judgment on what I believe the national interest demands. If it demands no, I will say no.

  • Mr Major’s Downing Street Press Conference – 16 January 1995

    Below is the transcript of Mr Major’s press conference, held at Downing Street in London on Monday 16th January 1995.


    PRIME MINISTER:

    Thank you all for coming this afternoon. I thought as we have now got into the New Year that it might be appropriate to take this opportunity to have a look across the political scene as it is at the moment.

    I think we are about to enter a particularly interesting phase, and let me firstly say something about the longer term. In around two years, maybe a little more, perhaps a little less, we are going to have to persuade the public once again to entrust us with government. After 17 years I do not believe that anyone should be complacent about that task. No party has a divine right to govern and no-one should expect a bouncy economy alone to ensure an election success.

    Last week I took some steps to put this country on course for the longer term. On Friday, with some senior colleagues at Chequers, I conducted a comprehensive review of Britain’s role in the world. We analysed both the risks and the opportunities in the immediate future. We looked at what we had to do to promote Britain’s national interest and we looked at the policies that we believe were right for Britain.

    A nation like ours, dependent for about one-third of its wealth on overseas trade, must promote its interests worldwide. We have for long been a global power and we will continue to be a global power, but in an increasingly competitive world, that means that we must single-mindedly pursue our interests around the world politically and commercially, we must all put Britain first.

    I plan to have further Chequers meetings to look at domestic and social policies – jobs, health, education, public services – and these will be critical in building up the government’s policies for the future. This is work similar to that undertaken before the 1992 election, but it will be much wider and with a much longer perspective.

    I have invited Secretaries of State to assemble policy groups, each in their respective areas, and the remit for these groups is to think both boldly and imaginatively. I want their prescriptions informed by a very wide process of consultation, with people in all walks of life, inside and outside the Conservative Party. The Policy Unit will also consult widely, external expert opinions will be sought, I intend to have the widest possible debate to build the next phase of Conservatism, to plan new policies for government in the new millennium.

    Over recent years I believe we have done what is right for this country. But I know that doing uncomfortable things, although often necessary in government, does not at the same time necessarily endear you to people. But if your policy is right, and you stick to that policy, the benefits do come through, and that is what I believe is now beginning to happen.

    The economic debate and the European debate have dominated politics for some time, the economy is now coming right, and I can now see a road to unity on European policy as we prepare for the Intergovernmental Conference in 1996 and 1997.

    But there is a political life apart from these two subjects. Jobs, education, health, personal choice and opportunity, the levels of tax, the quality of life in the public services, these are things that concern families in every part of the country. On the economy we have a broadly based recovery unlike any that we have seen since 1945. It is a recovery for the long term, it is not a flash in the pan, it is not fuelled by monopoly money. We are seeing confidence and growth restored to manufacturing industry, Britain is making things once more, as it traditionally did, and it is selling them to every corner of the world. People will feel the effects of this recovery only gradually, but as they do begin to feel those effects, they can have confidence that that recovery is going to last.

    We will continue to pursue privatisation for the best of reasons, to help improve the standards of service to the public. Frankly, I am not content with the service we have had over many years from British Rail, I want to remove British Rail for good from the stand-up comedian’s joke book and to turn them into the envy of the world, we did that with British Airways and I have every intention of doing that with British Rail as well.

    On education policy we are pursuing higher standards, more choice, more opportunity. Later this year we will come forward with our detailed proposals on nursery education, testing the National Curriculum performance tables, all of these are now beginning to lever up standards and people can begin to see that that is what is happening, the improvement is evident and we intend it to continue into the future.

    I am utterly committed to the National Health Service. Each year doctors and nurses care for more patients, a million more than since our reforms began. This year we are abolishing a complete layer of bureaucracy in order to target resources on patient care. The great reforms of recent years are in place and they are now settling down. It would frankly be folly to seek to tear up those reforms, it would introduce chaos and instability into General Practioners’ surgeries and into hospitals up and down the country. The result of that could only be to shift the focus away from the patient and better treatment for the patient.

    We will carry forward the sea-change in our approach to fighting crime. People want to know that crime does not pay, but that criminals do. The new measures which come into effect this year to come down hard on persistent young offenders and bail-bandits, for example, they will give the police more powers to put criminals behind bars and to make punishment fit the crime.

    Crucial to these reforms has been the operation of the Citizen’s Charter. The Charter has delivered better information and standards in both health and education and will do so right across government. It is, as it always has been, a ten year programme to improve public services. I do not believe that public services should provide a brusque response to the public or to be needlessly anonymous, they are there to serve the public, and to be accountable to the public, and that is the right sort of devolution.

    The consistent theme in these reforms is moving the decision-making process away from government and out to local people, that is the sort of devolution that I passionately favour, not devolution which creates extra tiers of bureaucracy with extra tiers of expense and extra tiers of frustration for most of the people in this country.

    We are opening up government steadily but significantly. The last two years have seen changes to our security and intelligence services, to the information available about government committees and departments. There have been changes following the Jopling recommendations in the way Parliament works; changes for the system of awarding honours; and changes to the decision-making process in Scotland. The British constitution is not a written constitution, but neither is it an unchanging constitution. But it should be changed only with care and with good reason, not in a careless fashion for political reasons. Above all, I am concerned to widen opportunity for everyone, whatever their start in life may have been. We want to help people meet their own ambitions and control more of their own lives.

    We have a crowded agenda in the years immediately ahead of us, but what we are also seeking to do is to fashion flow in a wider way than has been done for very many years, the direction of policy beyond the immediate future, and that work will start immediately.

     

    QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS:

    QUESTION (John Sergeant, BBC):

    Prime Minister, this has many of the characteristics of a press conference at the beginning of an election campaign, is it your intention to use this conference to mount an attack on the Labour Party, and Mr Blair particularly?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    What a tempter you are. The purpose of this press conference was to set out what I have just said to you, firstly, and secondly to honour the promise that I made to you, not necessarily you, John, but the Lobby and others generally in the summer, when I promised that from time to time I would have further press conferences so that you would have the opportunity to question me. If you wish to question me about the Labour Party, of course I will respond to the policy muddles that they are getting into on education, on British Rail, on devolution, on energy policy, on health and on a range of other subjects, but as you will notice, I did not myself introduce the subject.

    QUESTION (Peter Riddell, Times):

    You mentioned at the end of your statement about the constitution being changed with care, have you got any proposals yourself, particularly in relation to the Nolan Committee, will you be putting forward suggestions for improving say appointments to quangos and other matters being covered by Nolan?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    I will be very interested to see what Nolan has to say. I think Nolan touches an area of concern that has been there for some time, and I think the Nolan recommendations will have to be looked at very seriously. I have not been invited to give evidence to Nolan, other members of the government will and where appropriate they will put forward particular ideas. But certainly we will wish to look very carefully at what Nolan recommends and very probably we will be seeking to implement much of it.

    QUESTION (Peter Snow, Newsnight);

    When you said in your New Year interview that at the Intergovernmental Conference on Europe next year you would not accept constitutional changes that would be damaging, did you mean by that that you would veto them or that Britain would not accept but the others could go ahead without you?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    The agreements at the Intergovernmental Conference have to be agreed unanimously, that is the way in which the European Union works. I am not in the business of just going there with heavy boots to be difficult, but if people propose constitutional change that I think is inappropriate for Europe, or inappropriate for the United Kingdom, then I will not accept it, I have made that perfectly clear.

    QUESTION (Peter Snow):

    You will veto it?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    If you choose to use that word, yes most certainly I will veto it, I will not accept it. If I do not believe it is in the interests of the United Kingdom, or indeed in the interests of the wider European case, then I will most emphatically say so and I will most emphatically say ‘No’. But I also said in that interview that I do not myself believe that the 1996 conference is going to raise huge constitutional issues, I cannot be certain about that, I cannot be certain what the other 14 countries will introduce, any country can introduce any issue it wishes, but I do not at the moment expect great constitutional issues to be introduced, if they are I believe the time is inappropriate, if they are and I think they are significant and damaging then I will reject them.

    QUESTION (Elinor Goodman):

    Given that you say this press conference is in part to map out the future of Conservatism, and also you admit to give us the chance to ask questions about the Labour Party, is Downing Street the right place to have it or shouldn’t it be at Conservative Central Office?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    You are the first journalist I have ever known not to wish to take the opportunity of asking questions wherever they may be asked, Elinor. But as far as the direct point you make is concerned, I am mapping out the policies for the rest of this government and for future Conservative governments.

    QUESTION (Michael Brunson, ITN):

    Can I ask about rail privatisation. I know that you always say that every privatisation is unpopular, but would you not accept that this privatisation seems to be unusually unpopular, even among some members of your own party? And secondly, since at least the Labour Party is now prepared to say that they are committed to a publicly owned and a publicly accountable railway after the next election, would you not accept that that is going to give those who may wish to buy, particularly Railtrack, very considerable anxiety about getting involved in this privatisation?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    You have brought me the news of what the Labour Party’s policy is at 1550 on Monday afternoon, whether it will be the same tomorrow morning I suppose is a moot point, it does seem to have undergone rather a few changes over the last few weeks. Last week Mr Blair was not sure whether he would renationalise or not. Mr Prescott equivocated in radio interviews, before that Mr Prescott was certain he would renationalise, and so would others. So I am not entirely sure what their policy will be in the future, though I strongly suspect that this is the first part of the Danegeld to be paid for the support that Mr Blair will seek on Clause 4.

    But as far as your direct question of concern, as to whether this is going to be uniquely unpopular, I would simply suggest that you go back and look at what was said in many of the previous privatisations. If, for example, I refer to British Steel, what was it that the Labour Front bench, Donald Dewar I think it was from memory said about British Steel – “totally irrelevant to the real interests of the industry and based on dogma”, he said, ‘the Labour Party is unequivocally implacably opposed to it.” British Steel, privatised, is now one of the most efficient steel-makers in the world. This was the privatisation that was said not to be concerned with the real interests of the industry. What was it they said about British Airways, again it was poor old Donald Dewar who was the Spokesman “British Airways will be the pantomime horse of capitalism, if it is anything at all” said the Labour Party about the privatisation of British Airways.

    I do not think there are many people here at this press conference or who may watch this answer who doubts that British Airways is now one of the most efficient airways anywhere in the world. So I believe it can be with British Rail, I am just not satisfied with what British Rail has produced by way of a service in the last 40 years or so, I believe it can do better, I know it is controversial but I believe it can provide a better service. And many of the scare stories that there have been about mass hackings of the line are dealt with in the legislation which ensures that services are protected. So I believe yes we can proceed with it, yes we will be able to proceed with the flotation, and yes over time precisely the same impact will be had by a privatised British Rail as we have seen with electricity, gas, steel, telecoms and British Airways, the private sector will run it better and passengers will get a better service.

    QUESTION (Mike Brunson):

    And they will buy it?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    And they will buy it.

    QUESTION (Adam Boulton, Sky TV):

    On the question of the Union, how do you reconcile your attitude towards Northern Ireland, in which you say Britain has no selfish strategic interest and you have given the people the right of self-determination, to your attitude to Scotland, and would you be prepared to consider another referendum on devolved government for Scotland?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    Well I was interested to see that the Labour Leader ruled out a referendum on legislation to introduce devolution to Scotland and Wales, I find that extraordinary if that is a settled position, but perhaps it will not be a settled position, perhaps it will change again. The distinction with Northern Ireland I think is very clear, in Northern Ireland we are not talking about a tax-raising assembly with the powers and authorities that would apparently be given to a Scottish Assembly. The danger with a Scottish Assembly, well there are many dangers with a Scottish Assembly, but I think there is a very real danger with that that it would firstly do dramatic damage to Scotland. And I say that with good reason. If Scotland is going to have the privilege of being more highly taxed, is Scotland going to have the degree of inward investment that previously it has had? I would suggest an inward investor would say: “But the Scots are more highly taxed, therefore there is going to be more pressure on wage demands, therefore my costs are going to be higher, therefore I am not going to invest in Scotland”. That is but one of a whole series of questions.

    The constitutional questions about what is proposed in Scotland are even more damaging. If Scotland is to have authority for education and health, and all health and education matters are to be settled by the Scottish Parliament, what rights would Scottish Members of Parliament have over those matters? None at all. What rights, therefore, should Scottish Members of Parliament have at Westminster over health and education in England, Wales and Northern Ireland? It is not credible. What in practise is being done in Scotland is that the Labour Party are well aware that they need a big majority of seats in Scotland in order to win a general election, they are very worried that the Scottish Nationalist Party would do very well in a general election, they are trying to out-bid the Scottish Nationalist Party in terms of winning seats, and they have now begun to realise the difficulties that that faces them. So they have offered an Assembly in Wales, but it seems a rather lesser Assembly, they do not regard that as important to Scotland.

    And then in order to square the circle they have said but we would have regional government all over England. There is no demand for regional government all over England, there is no demand for an extra tier of bureaucracy all over England. We are going to have, we are told by the Labour Party, a Premier for Scotland. Are we going to have a Premier for Wales? Are we going to have a Premier for Sunderland? Is his official residence going to be Roper Park? Who can tell? I could stretch to the corner of this room and back again the nonsenses that arise out of these devolution plans and the dangers that arise and I think those dangers are now becoming apparent, not just to the Conservative Party, but to Labour Members of Parliament in Scotland and in Wales and to people right across the country. They are just not thought through or thought out and they are immensely damaging.

    CHARLES RICE (EVENING STANDARD):

    Do you accept that if the Ulster Unionist MPs were to withdraw their support from the Government they could precipitate a general election a lot earlier than the two years you foreshadow and do you absolutely rule out paying Danegeld in any form to them?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    I have made it perfectly clear all along that we propose to seek a settlement in Northern Ireland but that it can only be done by carrying with us the people of Northern Ireland. I have seen some of the concerns that have been aroused about what might be in the framework document which is the premise upon which I think you based your question. There is no question of joint authority with Dublin having authority over Northern Ireland; that was ruled out a long time ago and many of the concerns that have prompted stories over the last day or so are just out of date and wrong.

    PETER HAYES (CENTRAL TELEVISION):

    I work for an area in which you may recall you lost of one of your precious parliamentary seats fairly recently.

    PRIME MINISTER:

    All my parliamentary seats are precious, all of them!

    PETER HAYES:

    During the by-election campaign, one of your traditional supporters said to me that he accepted successes in Northern Ireland, he accepted success for example on the economy but he said: “What is new? What is the big idea taking us as Conservative supporters up to the next election?” What you you say to him?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    I think there a range of things if I may because this idea of one single, big idea is often a misleading proposition. Policy goes in a particular direction and the policy is going in the direction of moving as much authority and opportunity away from the centre and down to the individual and his family.

    The big idea is making sure that the people of this country have as much freedom, liberty and opportunity as they possibly can. That is the big idea that the Conservative Party has stood for for generations and stands for now. That is why we want the lowest possible level of taxation; that is why we have provided so much extra power and authority for self-governing schools and information for the parents in those schools; that is why we have taken the management of hospitals away from bureaucrats and put it actually down to National Health Service trust hospitals – 98% of hospitals are now trust hospitals.

    That is the drift and direction of policy; that is why we would much prefer to be cutting taxes rather than raising taxes, that is a matter of innate instinct for the Conservative Party, by instinct we cut taxes, we dislike raising them; we have had to do it, it has been damaging for us and I think as soon as we are able to reverse that prudently and safely on economic grounds we will do so.

    The idea that you seek for is to make sure that the individual, whatever fashion of life he may have, has the greatest amount of devolution of choice and authority to him or her; that is and always has been the big Conservative idea.

    TREVOR KAVANAGH (THE SUN):

    Prime Minister, in view of the recent disclosures both official and unofficial about the Royal Family, do you have any concerns about the standing and respect in which those members of the Royal Family are held?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    I believe the Royal Family is a central glue in the constitution of the United Kingdom; I don’t see that changing. I know of everybody in public life in one form or another – it applies to the Royal Family, it applies to other people not just in elected public life – people expect very high standards all the time. think that has always been the position in this country.

    I think the underlying affection for the Royal Family remains immensely strong; I think that will manifest itself. From time to time, there are squalls which for a short term cause some difficulty; I think that is what they are, short-term squalls and the underlying affection, respect and admiration for the constitution of the monarchy itself will be untouched by this. I believe it will continue to endure and I personally believe it is immensely important for this country that it does.

    QUESTION (GMTV):

    Just a word about the people who have lost the whip. Do you accept that a couple of them may not actually wish to rejoin the Conservative Party despite the olive branches that you have proffered and what view do you take of that?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    It takes two to tango! The music has struck up, we will see who will take partners and when!

    QUESTION:

    Prime Minister, how soon do you anticipate you will be able to reassure those Unionists who suggested at the weekend that there might well be a general election this year and do you anticipate the search for a political settlement running into the next general election?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    I can’t answer the second question; I don’t wish to put a time frame on the search for a settlement. I will go on searching for a settlement until we have a settlement because I believe that it is immensely important that we do so and I believe the prospects of a settlement exist.

    We will pursue the joint framework document. I think the fears that have given rise to stories, as I indicated a moment ago, are mistaken fears and I think it will become apparent that they are mistaken fears but if I may push aside the political element that you raise, I have said from the outset of this many times on the record – you will have heard me say it many times, I repeat it again – we will only be successful in bringing peace to Northern Ireland if we can carry with us all the people of Northern Ireland. That is why I am playing this with my hands open and the cards face-out on the table.

    Let me take the framework document since it has now been raised twice. When we have agreed the framework document with the Irish government, that isn’t something that is going to be imposed. The framework document will then be published for everyone to see; it is then for the constitutional parties to examine it, to consult it and to comment on it. It goes into the talks with all the constitutional parties; then, if they approve it, it goes to a referendum of all the people of Northern Ireland so the fear that there is some sort of deal in which joint authority is in some curious fashion going to be enforced over the people of Northern Ireland against their will is not going to happen and cannot happen. We have not got joint authority in the document, the document itself is for consultation; it will have to be approved by the political parties in Northern Ireland and when they have finished with it, it will have to be approved by all the people of Northern Ireland so they have a triple look on their own future and I believe that is the way to carry with this process all the people of Northern Ireland.

    There are ancient differences, feuds, fears that have been in Northern Ireland literally for generations; the only way to still them is for people to look carefully and cautiously at what is happening and decide for themselves that this is the right way to deliver peace.

    You asked whether we would have it by the general election. I can’t promise that. It is not necessarily a speedy process. I think it was – I hope it was – an Irish poet, Yates, who wrote: “Peace comes dropping slow!” and I believe that is right. I think it was the “Lake Isle of Innisfree” and if it wasn’t I will no doubt be told tomorrow! “Peace comes dropping slow.” I believe that is entirely appropriate to the way in which we are developing this question in Northern Ireland.

    Everybody – every sane and sensible person – wishes to see a permanent settlement in Northern Ireland. It cannot be done without patiently and carefully looking at each of the areas that need to be dealt with and trying to place in the right place on the chess-board all the pieces that will comfort the fears of the different groups and people of Northern Ireland. That is what we are trying to do and we will do it openly.

    JOHN CRAIG (DAILY EXPRESS):

    When you spoke to us in the sunshine back in the summer, you told us of your plans to reshuffle your Cabinet. Is the Cabinet you have got now the one that you would hope to lead into the next general election or can we expect some more changes between now and then?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    The next general election may be two-and-a-half years away but I certainly have no plans for changes now. I enjoyed that press conference in the garden; I did contemplate having it in the garden this afternoon but I wasn’t sure how generally popular that might be.

    QUESTION:

    [Inaudible] devolution for quite some time now, indeed since the last general election. Does it surprise you therefore to find in the opinion polls the majority swinging the other way, in the “Sunday Times” poll for example 49% for, 32% against?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    I think the debate on devolution is only just beginning. Why do I believe so many people favour it? I think instinctively in every part of the United Kingdom people are proud of being Scottish, Welsh, English or Northern Irish and instinctively asked about a Scottish Parliament “Would you like a Scottish Parliament?” I think the answer instinctively is likely to be yes. Asked: “Would you like to pay more income tax than anybody else in the vicinity?” the answer may be no. Asked whether you would wish to see companies disinvest, moving away from Scotland, creating more people unemployed, I think the answer would be no. Asked whether you want to be a little Scotland in the middle of a great European Community without having the negotiating strength of the whole United Kingdom, I think the answer would be no. Asked if you would like to be the United Kingdom equivalent of Quebec in Canada, I think the answer will be no.

    It is not only me, not only the Conservative Party who thinks that these plans are folly. Other people, as they begin to examine them, will see that underneath the general aspiration there are very dangerous and damaging policies indeed. I will spell them out in detail again if you wish but I think you all are aware of the things that concern me: the different taxation policy; the question of the rights of Members of Parliament at Westminster in Scotland; the fact that if there was a Scottish Parliament there would be no justification for the numerically over-large Scottish membership in the House of Commons.

    All those are issues of some importance but if a Scottish Parliament was established and then began to challenge the English Parliament on issues, as I believe would almost undoubtedly be the case over time, what are the difficulties that are going to arise at that stage? What happens if there is a backlash elsewhere in the United Kingdom against the Scottish Parliament? I am not speaking out against the wishes of Scotland, I believe I am speaking for the interests of Scotland in pointing out that what is proposed is not a proposition that will help the living standards of Scotland or the future of Scotland and I will continue to make that point until we have won the debate, won the argument and seen these damaging proposals ditched and gone for ever.

    ROBIN OAKLEY (BBC TV):

    Prime Minister, two of your biggest problems in running your party centre round the disunity on Europe and on the sleaze factor. Why have you moved from saying that the rebels have got to work their way back over months to saying they would be taken back within weeks? What strength will your whips have to exert any discipline in future if they are taken back quickly?

    On the sleaze factor, why are you not encouraging the Nolan Committee to look into the financing of political parties around which many people’s worries on the sleaze factor tend to concentrate?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    I don’t think that is the remit of the Nolan Committee, it wasn’t set up to look at that and I don’t anticipate that it is going to look at that.

    On the first point, the question of the colleagues who don’t have the whip, it is up to events to determine when they come back. I indicated over the weekend that I thought on many issues they were very strong Conservatives indeed, they will wish to see a Conservative victory at the next general election. I don’t believe the issues of dispute that have caused this split are issues that it is impossible to resolve. I think some of the resolution is now in place and I think the rest of the resolution is now a clear path so I believe that they will come back. I can’t determine when they come back, it will need an agreement between both of us – as I indicated a moment ago, it takes two to reach such an agreement. I hope that they will decide to do so and I believe that is the wish of the 321 Conservative MPs in the House who have the whip.

    QUESTION (CH4):

    Prime Minister, could you foresee winning the next general election without lowering taxes substantially?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    I can’t anticipate the next two budgets. I am in favour of lower taxes but only providing it is economically justifiable; we will have to wait and see whether that is the case. I don’t think it would be prudent for me to tell you now what will be in the next budget or indeed the budget after that.

    QUESTION (DON McINTYRE):

    Prime Minister, do you think that the current well-publicised deliberations of the CBI and others on executive pay are in the end going to result in some form of legislation on that topic?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    I think they are trying to produce a system where peer pressure works and I believe that is the right way to deal with it. I think peer pressure on executive pay and ensuring that shareholders and institutional shareholders perhaps in particular use their power as the owners of companies to ensure that top pay awards are satisfactory is right.

    The danger is, however ill-advised some of these very large pay increases may have been and however offensive they may have been to many people, once you get in the direction of determining pay for top executives, where do you stop? Do you stop just at the former nationalised industries? Do you look beyond that to other companies that one way or another serve the people? Do you actually look at football managers, editors of newspapers? Where do you stop? You are actually getting into a position where the Government is going to decide who is paid what in areas that are not owned by the Government. That has been tried in the past, it has never in the past been successful.

    I share the concern that many people felt about some of these pay increases and I don’t think anybody who knows me doubts that and I think most of you in this room know that very well but the question is in opposition you can play gesture politics, in government you can’t. In government, you would be asking us: “What are you going to do?” and when we had said: “We are going to do this!” you would have pointed out all the defects in that insofar as it affected other people and you would have been right to do so. Gesture politics is very effective if you are in opposition but it is not effective if your are a government and I think therefore that the tight way to deal with this is the way the CBI are doing, the establishment of the Greenbury Committee. The National Association Of Pension Funds and others have expressed similar views and that sort of peer pressure is the best way to get an effective answer in my judgement.

    QUESTION:

    Prime Minister, you said in your statement that you were going to seek advice from Conservative non-government groups in formulating your policies for the next century. Can you indicate what groups you have in mind and would you welcome members of the public writing in to tell you what they thought?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    They always have done in my recollection. Let me be clear. I certainly didn’t mean the Labour Party and the Liberal Party; I don’t think any advice from them would be likely to be productive. I had in mind people who are non-political, who are specialists in whatever it may be, transport, the environment. I anticipate utilising and inviting some of the specialists in areas of great importance to future Government policy to submit their views on what needs to be done and of course, if people have a particular interest or a particular knowledge we would wish to hear what their views are. We are not just looking at a manifesto for the next general election – let me emphasise that again – we are looking at a much wider and longer time-scale so that we can look at the next phase of development in the United Kingdom and the sort of policies that we think are appropriate both for Great Britain as a country internationally and also for individuals within great Britain and their own individual liberties, choices and opportunities.

    QUESTION:

    [Inaudible] a new strategic authority for Greater London?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    No, I have no plans to do so at the moment, no.

    QUESTION (RADIO COVERING THE NORTH-EAST):

    Could you offer a message of hope for the people in the North-East, particularly the unemployed who feel they have been betrayed by your Government?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    I think unemployment is falling pretty rapidly in many parts of the country, not least of course the North-East. You put the point rather provocatively but I think many of the people in the North-East would look at some of the very large external investments providing jobs in the North-East and they might say to themselves would those investments have come to the United Kingdom and in particular would they have come to the North-East if it hadn’t been for the policies that the Conservative Government had followed and the answer to that question, as you will, know, is no, they would not have come to the United Kingdom and they would not have come to the North-East so I believe when they look at that dispassionately they will see the opportunities for increasing employment.

    What we have seen over the past two years is a continuing reduction in the level of unemployment; it has come down, frankly, faster than we imagined that it would and it is very welcome that it has done so and I hope what we are going to see in the months ahead is a continuing fall in unemployment and to make the reverse point, a continuing rise of the number of people in employment as well. The economy is set fair for that; although there is not a direct relationship between growth and job creation for a number of complex reasons, I hope that is the trend that we are going to see.

    QUESTION (MICHAEL WHITE):

    You are holding this press conference 43.5% behind in the polls, you say the economic recovery is coming through but isn’t it possible that if people feel as confident as you say they will they will take a chance on another government and if they don’t the reason why you are 43.5% behind is that “Daily Telegraph” readers feel all the insecurity which skilled workers – Labour voters – felt ten years ago when your free-market revolution began? Boris’s readers are as nervous as everybody else.

    PRIME MINISTER:

    Is Boris here. Oh there he is!

    You quote Gallup; Mori had a rather different figure which just indicates how volatile the opinion polls are at the moment, I have never been a great advocate of opinion polls on the question of voting at a particular time and that has been true in days when they have been favour to the Conservative Party as well as days when they have been less favourable to the Conservative Party.

    I believe that one can begin to see a great sea change in what has been put in hand over the past three or four years. We put a whole range of things in hand; we have produced a great deal of reform. Reform is often painful, it upsets people, people tend to object very strongly if their particular profession is being reformed; they certainly object very strongly if they face increased taxation they didn’t expect so there are a range of issues why people have had reason to feel disenchanted but because of the decisions that we have taken, because we accepted the unpopularity that went with those decisions, we can now see in the second half of this Parliament – and we are only just entering the second half of this Parliament – that we are on the most secure growth pattern for the economy that we have known for very many years indeed, that the education policies are delivering higher standards, better results, more young people in further education and better information for parents; that the health reforms are producing many more people treated, a wider range of treatments and faster treatment than ever before; and that in a whole series of other Government policies we can see a distinct improvement coming through so I believe the attitude does change. There is a fashion about these things. I think people will begin to see over the months ahead that the circumstances are changed, that many people who feel gloomy will begin to feel perhaps the gloom has been overdone and the prospects for them are much better.

    One of the things I believe affecting many of the people who feel very concerned is insecurity about their own employment prospects – you referred to Boris’s readers, I am sure that would be the case with many of those people – and yet we have seen for two years unemployment falling. In France, the nearest comparable economy to the United Kingdom in size and structure, you have unemployment at 12.8% and rising; here in Britain it is 8.8% and falling. That argues that we must have done something right and I believe as that continues to fall that message is going to echo very clearly in each and every part of the country and I will do my best to ensure that it does, Michael, as I am sure you will.

  • Mr Major’s Speech during the 1994 Queen’s Speech Debate – 16 November 1994

    Below is the text of Mr Major’s speech during the 1994 Queen’s Speech Debate on 16th November 1994.


    Mr. Tony Blair (Sedgefield): As Members may know, my right hon. Friend the Opposition Chief Whip was taken ill this morning, and before beginning my speech I am pleased to tell the House that his condition is described by the hospital as stable, and not a cause for alarm. I know that we all wish him and Anne well, and we also wish him a speedy return.

    It is the custom of the House that the Leader of the Opposition has the pleasant duty of congratulating the mover and seconder of the Loyal Address, and I am delighted to do so. The hon. Member for Dartford (Mr. Dunn) gave a somewhat unusually combative proposal of the Loyal Address, and at some points I was not entirely sure whether he was moving the Loyal Address or giving an after-dinner speech to his local Conservative association.

    Nevertheless, I hope that I shall not do the hon. Gentleman irrevocable damage if I disclose to the House that, as he will know, I have personal reasons for being extremely grateful to him. When he was an Education Minister, although he may have done many things wrong, he did one thing right: he reversed the planned closure of a vital special needs school in my constituency of Sedgefield, despite the fact that the education experts wanted it closed.

    At the time, I thought that that was merely a one-off act of compassion on the hon. Gentleman’s part, but last year in the House he threw greater light on his decision, when he said that the last thing any Minister should sensibly do is to listen to the educational world for advice. The only advice he could give was to listen to what they say and “then do the opposite”. Given such an attitude, the only surprise is that the hon. Gentleman never made it to the Cabinet. However, I wish him well most sincerely.

    The hon. Member for Aberdeen, South (Mr. Robertson) seconded the motion with great flair, humour and wit, and said that he had the dubious pleasure of being in a House containing no fewer than three other Members who at one time had represented his constituency but had then lost it, only to win again somewhere else. I trust that the hon. Gentleman will understand if I say that, given the size of his majority, I hope that at the next election he will be able to satisfy at least half the requirements of that elite club. Both speeches, the proposing and the seconding of the Loyal Address, were able. I congratulate both hon. Gentlemen.

    It is also the custom at this time to review one or two personal events for the House over the past year, and I hope that I shall be forgiven for saying that the past year has been marked by deep sorrow for my party. Twelve months ago, John Smith gave the kind of spirited, witty and principled speech that earned him respect across the Chamber and throughout the nation. I believe that we united across party lines then, and that we still do so now, in his memory. I pay particular tribute to the life and work of Jo Richardson, who, despite immense physical pain, never wavered in her tireless work for her constituents and for the cause of women everywhere. To those two names must be added the sad loss of colleagues on both sides of the House–James Boyce, Stephen Milligan, Ron Leighton, Bob Cryer and John Blackburn, all of whom served their constituents and their country with dedication, and will be sorely missed.

    Parts of the Queen’s Speech we welcome. Thanks to the efforts of the British and Irish Governments and the constitutional parties in Northern Ireland, there is room for cautious optimism about the future of the Province–more room than at any time, certainly in my generation. The Opposition will continue to support the peace process and to play our part in building a future of conciliation and prosperity. Her Majesty’s Opposition exist not only to oppose Her Majesty’s Government, and we shall be pleased to continue to support the Government in the peace process. Indeed, we shall take an active part in next month’s conference on the economy of Northern Ireland.

    We also rejoice at the defeat of apartheid and the return of South Africa to the Commonwealth. The Opposition, at least, are proud of the part that we played in the battle against the evil of the old regime. I play particular tribute to the steadfast work of my hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeen, North (Mr. Hughes), who has made such an outstanding contribution over the years.

    We also welcome plans to expand the European Union, and look forward to the entry of new members from northern and eastern Europe, and we shall continue to make constructive suggestions for the reform and improvement of that Union and to press for the Government to regain our influence within Europe.

    Mr. Oliver Heald (Hertfordshire, North): Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

    Mr. Blair: In a moment, if I may. On the detail of the Address, we have long urged legislation on the regulation of pensions, the establishment of an environmental protection agency, a new criminal cases review authority, and rights for disabled people. We shall, however, carefully scrutinise the detail of all those Bills.

    The pensions regulations must be comprehensive and clear. We all know of the scandal of people cheated of their savings by unscrupulous advisers who abused poor regulation. Our people will not be satisfied unless there is proper protection for the hard-working majority who save for their retirement and who should have the absolute right to see the benefits in old age.

    On the environment, we wish the new agency to be able to take action to protect our environment and to have proper powers of enforcement. I welcome the fact that, as I understand it, there will be legislation on the criminal cases review authority. The new system for investigating miscarriages of justice is long overdue. I very much hope that the method of investigation is independent and fair, and can be seen to be fair.

    Disabled people across Britain were greatly angered by the Government’s conduct during the passage of the Civil Rights (Disabled Persons) Bill. We welcome new legislation in the Queen’s Speech, and we look forward to it being implemented properly.

    Millions of people are desperate for changes in the Child Support Agency. Currently, the agency is a complete shambles, which is causing misery to tens of thousands of families. I very much hope that a radical reform of the agency is on the agenda in the coming year.

    Sir Giles Shaw (Pudsey): Will the right hon. Gentleman tell the House whether he supports the Bill on European own resources–yes or no?

    Mr. Blair: I am coming to that very point in a moment. I will then answer the hon. Member for Pudsey (Sir G. Shaw).

    Taken as a whole, the Queen’s Speech expresses the central quandary facing the Conservative party today: whether to praise Thatcherism or to bury it. Four years after the right hon. Lady’s departure, the Conservatives still cannot decide. The result is the hallmark of this Government: dogma tempered only by dithering.

    Nothing could make the point better than the debacle over Post Office privatisation. There are two extraordinary features of it. The first is not that 10 Tory rebels opposed it, but that 340 Tory Members, including the Prime Minister, supported it. One message at least is clear: “If you don’t want the Post Office privatised, don’t vote Tory at the next election.”

    The second extraordinary feature is the manner of decision-making; that is what is most extraordinary. One faction demands privatisation, so the deed is done; it is then the centrepiece of the Queen’s Speech. Then another faction rebels, so the proposal is removed. Then the first faction mounts another rebellion, and Ministers fall over themselves to proclaim their sorrow and anguish at this omission from the Queen’s Speech. Finally, the Government cast around for any hapless part of the public sector to privatise. Air traffic control is floated as a possibility, until even the genius of this Government’s public relations understands that the notion of Group 4 being in charge of air traffic control is not an immediate vote-winner.

    Ultimately, what do the Government privatise? They privatise the Atomic Energy Authority commercial services department. It is alighted on as a victim to be sold off. What does that tell us about this Government? It tells us that they are so riven by faction and buffeted from one day’s headlines to the next that they cannot address the interests of the country, and that they are woefully out of touch with public opinion. The combination of those factors makes them incapable of delivering good government.

    There should be a Bill about the Post Office in the Queen’s Speech–not to privatise it, but to liberate it within the public sector. Such a Bill would pass with virtually unanimous support. Why is it not in the Queen’s Speech? The reason is that, although the Government do not have the courage to privatise the Post Office, their dogma prevents them from adopting the only sensible alternative. The result is bad government.

    Mr. Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (Cirencester and Tewkesbury): In reviewing my party’s attitude to various issues, would the right hon. Gentleman also review his own party’s attitude to clause 4, and whether his party really–[Interruption.] Does his party really intend to abolish it, or is it just the rhetoric that he opposes?

    Mr. Blair: I did not hear the last part of the question, but I am absolutely delighted that the hon. Gentleman is so interested in clause 4. He will no doubt want to participate in the discussions on the matter in the months ahead.

    Mr. Gary Streeter (Plymouth, Sutton): On the issue of factions, will the right hon. Gentleman tell the House whether he agrees with the 61 members of his own party who signed an early-day motion calling on a future Labour Government to scrap Trident? Does he agree with that–yes or no?

    Mr. Blair: The position of the Labour leadership has been set out very clearly in the national executive statement at conference, and the hon. Gentleman can read it if he is interested.

    Mr. Patrick McLoughlin (Derbyshire, West): Since the right hon. Gentleman commented a little earlier on praising or trying to bury Thatcherism, does he regret voting for the changes in trade union reform which the Government have taken through the House over the past 15 years? If he does, which of the trade union reforms that the Government brought in, despite opposition from the Labour party, would he seek to reverse as a Labour Prime Minister?

    Mr. Blair: I have set out many times our position on trade union legislation, and I have said exactly what parts we will change and what parts we will not change. Since the hon. Gentleman intervened in my speech, perhaps he would answer this question. How did he stand at the previous election on the specific promise that he would not raise tax in this country, since he joined the Government in raising it straight after his election to the House?

    Mr. Charles Hendry (High Peak): In reference to the right hon. Gentleman’s comments on the public sector, does he think it right that inefficiencies in public services should be tolerated at the taxpayers’ expense if they lead to greater employment? Does he agree on that comment with his deputy leader? Will he tell the House if he disagrees?

    Mr. Blair: I am surprised that, after a week in which it has been revealed that a private health institution in Scotland received £30 million of public money, the hon. Gentleman should ask us about the efficiency of public services.

    Hon. Members: More, more.

    Dr. Robert Spink (Castle Point) rose —

    Mr. Blair: I will have to press on, but I shall give way to the hon. Gentleman.

    Dr. Spink: Does the right hon. Gentleman agree with his right hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull, East (Mr. Prescott) that the minimum wage would cost tens of thousands of jobs in the country? Will he support the job seeker’s allowance, which will help this Government to get the long-term unemployed back into work?

    Mr. Blair: The hon. Gentleman should be aware of recent evidence, published in the United States, of precisely the opposite effect. Indeed, it is the case that setting a proper floor for wages is a sensible way in which to operate the labour market. Secondly, let me tell the hon. Gentleman that I think that many people in this country see this Government failing to take action in relation to those privatised utilities and the pay increases awarded to their chairmen and directors, and find it quite obnoxious that the Government oppose a decent living and wage for people at the bottom end of the income scale, but do nothing about the abuses at the top.

    I was talking about the conduct of government. We see the same conduct not only in relation to the Post Office but in respect of the quite extraordinary furore which has been whipped up among the Tory party over Europe, with briefings and counter-briefings rolling around the press rooms of Britain today. So desperate are the Government to get their rebels into line that the chairman of the 1922 Committee has been dispatched to tell us that, if the Government are defeated on the Bill about own resources, or “even if there is any amendment to it”, a general election will immediately ensue. [Interruption.] There is at least some support for that proposition from the right hon. Member for Shropshire, North (Mr. Biffen), but that may simply be because he is retiring.

    It has surely come to something when a Government can secure the passage of their own legislative programme only by threatening their own demise. The Government might threaten a general election. I think we can be sure that they do not dare call one. However, what a way to run a party and a Government. That underlines the degree to which all those questions become a matter not of the nation’s interest, but simply a ball played from one part of the Conservative party over to the other and back again.

    I can tell Conservative Members that the country sees the gap between what the Conservative party today represents and what it wants a Government to do, and the country is appalled at how that gap ever widens. That shows that the politics of the 1980s has run its course. The concerns and needs of the British people have changed, and it is the Labour party that speaks for them.

    The British people want an end to the laissez-faire economics and the boom and bust of the past 15 years. They want a new economic approach, based on partnership between the public and private sectors and between management and employees to invest in industry to make our performance more dynamic and to give business and families the stability to plan for the future.

    The British people want strong public services, decent schools and well-run local hospitals, where pupils and patients, not bureaucrats, receive the resources. They do not want them to be sold off or broken up. They want poverty, inequality and mass unemployment to be attacked, not treated as of no consequence. They want safe communities liberated from violence, drugs and gangs of hooligans, where, in place of piecemeal initiatives, there is a comprehensive strategy– [Interruption.]

    Madam Speaker: Order. I believe that the right hon. Member for Sedgefield (Mr. Blair) is not giving way at the moment. Is that correct?

    Mr. Blair: I must make progress.

    Several hon. Members rose —

    Madam Speaker: Order. The right hon. Gentleman has indicated to me that he is not giving way at the moment.

    Mr. Blair: The vast majority of people in this country want safe communities, and they do not believe that the Government are delivering them. Above all else, perhaps, they want to feel that their voice is heard and that political institutions work for them and not for the people in charge. They want real democracy, with power devolved downwards, not an ever-increasing centralised state. The vast majority of people want to feel that they can trust their Government. The truth is that today no one believes a word that the Conservative party says–and no wonder. Let us consider tax, and the promises made at the last election. In March 1992, the Prime Minister said:

    “I have made it clear, we have no plans and no need to extend the scope of VAT.”

    The former Chancellor of the Exchequer said:

    “We will not have to increase taxes. I cannot see any circumstances in which that will be necessary.”

    That was said weeks before the general election. They now say that they did not know how bad the economic situation was.

    One might get away with that if one had been in power for 13 days. However, by the last election, the Government had been in power for 13 years. They knew the truth. Look at how many taxes the Conservatives have introduced. Let us consider the new Tory taxes and what they will mean for the average family: home insurance tax, car insurance tax, airport tax, petrol tax, VAT on fuel and cuts in the married couple’s allowance and cuts in mortgage tax relief. In total this year, they mean £360 on top of the £500 a year that families are already paying extra in tax since the election; 7p on the standard rate of income tax; £860 for the average family. In the light of the gap between what they have promised and what they have done, is it any wonder to them the cynicism and disgust with which their record is viewed by the majority of British people?

    Mr. Norman Lamont (Kingston upon Thames): As the right hon. Gentleman knows, the Government found it necessary to put up taxes in order to reduce borrowing, which was greater than anticipated. The right hon. Gentleman’s party fought the election on putting up taxes not in order to produce sound finances, not in order to reduce borrowing, but in order to spend more money. That was why the right hon. Gentleman wanted to put up taxes. The right hon. Gentleman now tells us that he has changed his party’s policy. Will he tell this House now that the policies of tax on which his party fought the election are wrong?

    Mr. Blair: I will tell the right hon. Gentleman what the difference is. We told the truth at the previous election. [Interruption.] I suppose that the Prime Minister will be relieved that, at least for once, the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Thames (Mr. Lamont) has come in on the Government’s side.

    Mr. Heald: The right hon. Gentleman was asked whether he would support the European own resources Bill. He said that he would answer the question. He has not. Will he answer now?

    Mr. Blair: We will judge that Bill in the light of the principles that we have set out. We have supported the settlement at the Edinburgh summit, but the hon. Gentleman knows that of course we have our differences with the Government over the social chapter. I can tell him, although I was going to deal with it later in my speech, that, in the light of the allegations about fraud and waste in the common agricultural policy, and in the light of the discrepancy between the position set out by the Chancellor last week and the figures given in some newspapers this morning, we will of course press the Government on all those issues.

    Now let me ask the hon. Gentleman, or perhaps the Prime Minister, a question: is it the case that the chairman of the 1922 Committee was speaking on behalf of the Conservative party when he said that the own resources Bill would be treated not as an ordinary piece of legislation but as a motion of confidence in the Government? I have to tell them that, if that is how it is to be treated, life becomes much more difficult, not less difficult, for the Government. The hon. Gentleman will understand that.

    I was about to deal with the Chancellor of the Exchequer’s interview in today’s edition of The Daily Telegraph , which, as ever, is interesting to read. The right hon. and learned Gentleman described himself as “fairly panic-proof”, which is a reassurance to us since he is in charge of the nation’s finances. He went on to say that his policies “have so far delivered very little to Mr. and Mrs. Smith up and down the country.”

    So far–they have been in power for 15 years; how much longer do they want before their policies deliver something? What they have delivered is an election programme secured on one basis, then broken with a series of record-breaking tax rises straight after the election.

    Mr. Michael Fabricant (Mid-Staffordshire): Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

    Mr. Blair: No. I really must move on.

    The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr. Kenneth Clarke): The right hon. Gentleman keeps giving way to interventions, then failing to answer them and returning to his speech. He was asked a moment ago by my right hon. Friend the Member for Kingston (Mr. Lamont) how he now reacted to his election promises of the last election to raise taxation in order to raise public spending. If he now criticises what we are doing, which of the tax increases that he has attacked would he reduce and which spending would he cut–in contrast to the tax increase promises on which he fought the last election?

    Mr. Blair: Last week, we published a comprehensive set of tax reforms to close the tax abuses that the Government have allowed to go on. What is more, we set out the huge windfall profits that have been made by utility companies, and will be made on the sale of the national grid. If the Chancellor of the Exchequer wants to get spending down, there is one good way of doing it: get unemployment down, and let the unemployed get back to work.

    The tax failure of the Government is in the end the product of their economic failure. The mismanagement of this country’s economy over 15 years is a story of incompetence on an epic scale: the two worst recessions in living memory; bankruptcy and insecurity for millions of people; the decimation of large parts of the industrial base. With the boom-bust economics comes the inability to plan or invest for the future.

    It is not even as if the living standards in our country had soared above those in other countries. The opposite is the case. According to the latest Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development figures for average income compared with that in other countries, Britain is just above Finland–lower than Germany, France and Italy, to be sure, but lower now than Belgium, Iceland and many others.

    Sir Cranley Onslow (Woking): Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

    Mr. Blair: No, I am sorry.

    Of course, now the economy has reached a different point in the economic cycle. There is recovery and growth, and inflation is low. We welcome that. However, the question is not whether we are at a different point in the economic cycle. The question is whether this burst of growth will be different from the others that have preceded it. This time, the Government say, the long term will come first, which is precisely what they–noticeably the Prime Minister himself–said at the beginning of the 1980s and at the end of the 1980s.

    What is the Government’s over-arching priority now? What is the clamour throughout the Tory party for next year’s Budget? It is for tax cuts, and the bigger the better. Whether they will be given or not will depend not on the state of the economy but on the state of the Tory party.

    Mr. Iain Duncan Smith (Chingford): Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

    Mr. Blair: The lesson of the past 15 years is that, unless we put the long term first, unless we have an economic policy that is stable and geared to the needs of the real economy, unless we strengthen our industrial base and make the investment in industry and people that we need, the reality is lower prosperity for all of us. Look even now: when we are barely out of recession, interest rates are raised. The chairman of the Conservative party promises that it will be the last such rise in interest rates. There are capacity constraints on output already. There are skill shortages–with 3 million unemployed–in parts of our economy.

    Most galling of all, the Conservative Government uniquely had the one-off, God-given bonus of North sea oil, and squandered it. They had hundreds of billions of pounds’ worth of North sea oil. On top of that, they had the privatisation proceeds. They were used not for investment but merely on current spending. What other country with all those resources would have had such a record of failure as the Conservative party has presided over?

    If reports are true, there are new oil finds in the west of Shetland field. For heaven’s sake, let us not squander that natural advantage as earlier natural advantages were squandered. Let for once the short-term interests of the Conservative party take second place to the long-term interests of the country.

    The same prejudice has led the Government to ignore the danger signs of the tearing of the social fabric of our country. We are as a nation more divided and less equal than at any time this century. Millions of people live on benefit, in poverty and without hope for the future. Of course there is a social and moral case for tackling that inequality, but there is an economic case, too. In parts of our inner cities, a generation of young people grows up in a culture of low employment prospects, poor education opportunities, family instability, drug abuse and crime. With no stake in society, it is hardly surprising when they show little responsibility towards it.

    Mr. Duncan Smith: Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

    Mr. Blair: The Government have doubled dependency on welfare since 1979–the very Government who pledged to cut that dependency.

    Mr. Duncan Smith rose —

    Madam Speaker: Order. The hon. Member for Chingford (Mr. Duncan Smith) should not persist, as it must be obvious that the right hon. Gentleman will not give way.

    Mr. Blair: After 15 years of Conservative government, tax and spending as a percentage of national income are up and not down. Why? Because we are paying the bills of failure. We are paying for the dole queues, poverty, low pay, homelessness and crime. The Government never learn that, the stronger and more united our society, the less we waste and the more we can invest. That is the difference.

    Good public services are a part of that. A moment ago, the hon. Member for High Peak (Mr. Hendry) asked me about efficient public services. We should look at the national health service. We have been promised even more legislation now to improve

    “the management of the National Health Service”.

    What has happened since the Queen’s Speech 15 years ago, when the Conservatives said that they would do the same? Bureaucracy and administration are up £3 billion a year. There are 20,000 general and senior managers, compared with 500 a few years ago. Some £70 million has been spent on company cars.

    This week, the true Tory philosophy on the health service was revealed by the chairman of an NHS trust–a serving Tory councillor. He said that the duty of doctors is to the balance sheet of their managers, and not to the needs of their patients. We can thank him for his candour, but that is not the national health service that the British people want.

    Of course, we need efficient management, but we do not have that. We have expensive management, which is swallowing millions of pounds, while many people are on waiting lists and are forced to wait in indignity and injured on trolleys in hospitals when they should be getting proper care.

    This week, it was revealed that £30 million was put into the collapsed Health Care International. That must be added to the hundreds of millions of pounds spent on railway privatisation and the poll tax, and the hundreds of millions wasted on the national curriculum. The Government have wasted public money at every turn, and they have wasted it on dogma.

    Last week, one Minister had to admit that he had lost £30 million of public money in four months, while another was found guilty of breaking the law and misusing £240 million in relations with countries overseas. A third–the Home Secretary, no less–was found to have acted unlawfully in respect of his own treatment of the victims of crime.

    The tale of how those victims have been treated is a scandal of arrogant incompetence from first to last. The new tariff system of compensation is manifestly unfair, and it was rejected by all victims’ groups. It has no support anywhere, and when the Government launched a consultation exercise about it, not a single representation was in favour of the Government’s plans. They were warned that it was unlawful–they took not the slightest notice. Meanwhile, the Home Secretary tells the Conservative party conference that he wants to put the victim at the heart of the criminal justice system. It is as rotten a tale of Conservative hypocrisy as is possible to imagine, even from this Government. The fact is that, whether on combating drugs, juvenile offending, illegal firearms, racial violence or the treatment of victims, it is the Opposition who have been standing up for law and order in this House and not the Government.

    The chance of a new start for the Government and the country has been thrown away in the Queen’s Speech. It is no wonder that the public turn away from politics when the Government refuse to hear the voice that they are speaking with. It is the Opposition who will continue to speak up for what the people of this country want–a modern and dynamic economy, action on crime, decent schools for all, hospitals run for patients and unemployment and poverty attacked. The Prime Minister may scorn “the vision thing”. He promises “the action thing”, but where is it? His Government are not dictated by the action thing, but by the dither thing. That is where they are, all the way through from the Child Support Agency to whether Ministers should resign, the channel tunnel and the Post Office. There is a case for action on behalf of the people of Britain, and it will be put by the Opposition. We know what needs to be done–the people of Britain know what needs to be done–because we share the hopes and ambitions of our people. We share their schools and hospitals, their values and their basic decency and we share something more–their shame at what has happened to Britain under the Conservative Government.

    The Queen’s Speech shows a Government who are out of touch and out of steam. At the next election, it will be our pleasure to put them out of office, too.

    The Prime Minister (Mr. John Major): I was sorry to learn earlier that the right hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Mr. Foster) has been taken ill. I was delighted to hear the right hon. Member for Sedgefield (Mr. Blair) say that the illness does not seem to be serious. I think that I speak for the House in saying that I hope that the right hon. Gentleman will soon be fully recovered and back here carrying out his duties.

    The right hon. Member for Sedgefield mentioned the sad loss of a number of colleagues on both sides of the House and I join him in the tributes that he paid to them. We may dispute and disagree often and violently in the House–sometimes that is our duty and our responsibility–but, whatever the interest or party that we represent, we are all here to serve the public. From time to time, therefore, it is right for us to put aside our party differences and acknowledge the work that is done by our political opponents. I happily do so today, not only on behalf of hon. Friends who are sadly no longer with us but on behalf of Opposition Members who sought to serve their country and their constituents.

    The right hon. Member for Sedgefield had some grave charges to lay before the Government–I shall deal with those that are relevant later and with some other matters that the right hon. Gentleman overlooked–but if he is going to attack the Government he really should get his facts right. If he is going to disparage the Government, he really should try to keep a straight face while he does it. If he smiles when he does so, it will hardly be a surprise to him that the House and the country are unlikely to take him seriously on those issues. If he shows signs of not believing what he says, he cannot be surprised if other people do not believe him either.

    The right hon. Member for Sedgefield was graceful about my hon. Friends and their proposing and seconding of the Gracious Speech. My hon. Friend the Member for Dartford (Mr. Dunn) entered the House on the same day as I did. We knew one another for many years before we came to this place. I know him well and he has always been blessed with the gift of clarity. [Hon. Members:– “Why are you smiling?”] I am not laying charges against my hon. Friend; I am about to praise him. I come here to praise him, not to disparage him. One always knows where one is with my hon. Friend–sometimes that is very good and sometimes it is just very clear.

    In this country, at least, we always know where we are with my hon. Friend, but abroad he has a slightly less certain touch. Seeking tickets while on holiday in Italy, he consulted his Italian phrase book, marched up to the booking clerk and, I am reliably informed, said something quite unspeakable in vile Italian. My informant did not tell me what it was, but I understand that it was emphatically not a request for a day return to Milan.

    In Florida, my hon. Friend visited Seaworld– [Interruption.] Relax. While watching the Walrus of Oz–I do not understand why the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull, East (Mr. Prescott) smiles when I mention the Walrus of Oz–my hon. Friend became a volunteer from the audience to play alongside the walrus. The starring piece of his remarkable performance was a passionate embrace with the walrus. That was embarrassing enough for him, but it was made far more embarrassing by the most deadly words that any Member of Parliament can hear on holiday, uttered by a lady who rushed up and said, “Mr. Dunn, I am one of your constituents.” Only time will tell whether that will increase his majority.

    My hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeen, South (Mr. Robertson) entered the House only at the last election. He referred to his first term in this House, which I am sure will be one of many. What he did not mention–we all know that he has a healthy appetite–was his election battle bus, which became notorious in his constituency for being parked outside a fast-food hamburger stop nearly every meal time. Entering with three companions, he ordered four hamburgers. “One each?”, asked the attendant politely. “I don’t know what they’re having”, said my hon. Friend, “but these four are for me.” –Clearly, elections build up the appetite in Aberdeen, but both my hon. Friends added to their growing reputations in their speeches this afternoon. Last year, I placed Northern Ireland at the head of our priorities: self-evidently, it remains at the head of the Government’s priorities. The past year has brought a new atmosphere and measured progress, but there is still a very long way to go before peace is secure and life in Northern Ireland returns to the same gentle tenor that we would expect it to have and would wish to see elsewhere in the United Kingdom.

    Next month, so long as the ceasefire is maintained, we shall open the exploratory dialogue with Sinn Fein and the loyalist political representatives. In those talks, the decommissioning of illegally held weapons will be a vital subject. Last week’s outrage in Newry–the murder of Mr. Kerr–showed how urgent that remains. Gun law has no part in democratic politics and the paramilitaries of both sides must abide by democratic principles if they wish to take part in democratic politics.

    The people of Northern Ireland, too, are impatient for political progress, and I believe that they are right to be. As part of an overall settlement, we shall make proposals for a possible way forward within Northern Ireland, including a locally accountable assembly.

    We have made good progress with the Irish Government on a joint framework document that covers relations between the two Governments and between Northern Ireland and the Republic. I hope that circumstances will allow us to complete the remaining negotiations speedily. The two Governments are seeking joint positions on some difficult issues, including the territorial claim that remains in the Irish constitution.

    Northern Ireland’s future must be resolved freely, and without prejudice or duress, and that was acknowledged in the Downing street declaration. As part of a balanced settlement, requiring change on both sides, the Irish Government agreed that the Republic’s constitution would need to change to reflect fully the principle of consent in Northern Ireland. It is obviously important for Northern Ireland to be recognised as a legitimate part of the United Kingdom while that remains the wish of the greater number of the people of Northern Ireland.

    A more relaxed relationship between Northern Ireland and the Republic is also important. Many people in the north want links with the south. There is already valuable co-operation and we would like to help it to evolve. Closer links would foster reconciliation and benefit business. Organisations in different sectors–tourism being an obvious example–will, in their own interests, wish to build up relationships. In the joint document, we shall suggest a framework for cross-border structures, working on common ground and on a reciprocal basis.

    I know that there are fears about joint authority–not least in the House but also beyond it, and most importantly throughout Northern Ireland–so let me make it clear that joint authority is not under consideration, and has been rejected by both Governments. I emphasise that those will be proposals; they will not be a straitjacket. This is not a London-Dublin deal, worked out and set to be imposed. The proposals will be published for public consultation and put to the democratic political parties in Northern Ireland. When the final outcome of the talks process is known, it will be submitted to the people of Northern Ireland in a referendum.

    The tasks ahead remain formidable, but each and every day without violence is another small victory for Northern Ireland. The benefits of peace which people are now witnessing will be a powerful disincentive to renewed violence.

    I cannot promise that those endeavours will be successful, but I can promise that we shall pursue them, with the hope of reaching a lasting peace. I express my thanks to right hon. and hon. Members, on both sides of the House, who put aside the normal political differences to support the process.

    Before I discuss the contents of the Gracious Speech, I wish to mention our economic prospects, as did the right hon. Member for Sedgefield.

    A year ago, many people had doubts about economic recovery. The hon. Member for Dunfermline, East (Mr. Brown) delved into his stock of gloomy soundbites and forecast “rising unemployment, falling output and shaky prospects for growth.”

    Since then, unemployment has decreased steadily, month by month. Today it fell by more than 45,000, to below 9 per cent. for the first time since December 1991. Throughout the European Union– [Interruption.] — only Portugal and Luxembourg now have less unemployment and, overall, the average is much greater throughout the Union, at 11.5 per cent.

    The right hon. Member for Sedgefield told us that one of the ways ahead was to reduce unemployment, but he would have been more gracious if he had acknowledged that we have reduced unemployment far more successfully than any other large country in western Europe, and that only two small countries have a lower rate.

    Mr. Skinner: Will the right hon. Gentleman give way on that point?

    The Prime Minister: I shall give way later.

    As for growth, output is currently increasing at more than 3.5 per cent., and we are forecast to have the fastest growth among the main economies in the European Union this year and next.

    The problem for the shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer, the hon. Member for Dunfermline, East, is that his every forecast turns out to be wrong–not some of them, but all of them. The laws of statistics and probability are suspended for the hon. Gentleman. If any hon. Members wish to win the lottery that we have established, they should ask the hon. Gentleman for numbers that are certain to lose, and their fortune will be guaranteed.

    I do not wish to be unfair to the hon. Member for Dunfermline, East. He is by no means the only misery merchant on the Opposition Front Bench who is seeking to spread despondency. The hon. Member for Livingston (Mr. Cook), who is enjoying an agreeable chat with the right hon. Member for Derby, South (Mrs. Beckett), was a trainee misery. He spoke of “big concerns” about how long the recovery would last. He did at least have the honesty to admit that there was a recovery. He spoke of

    “big concerns about how long the recovery could be sustained before it led to a balance of payments crisis.”

    As it happens, the trade balance is narrowing as output grows, and the hon. Gentleman was wrong.

    The hon. Gentleman has heavyweight company. The new deputy leader of the Labour party, the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull, East (Mr. Prescott), was in the gloom stakes as well.

    [Interruption.]

    Yes, he was. He is smiling now, probably because he knows that I am going to remind him that he said

    “I don’t see much inward investment flooding in, but I see companies flooding out.”

    I do not know what country the right hon. Gentleman was in when he said that, because it certainly does not apply to this country. The only things that are flooding out are exports, at record levels. The right hon. Gentleman also seems to have missed the inward investment. Last year, this country attracted 40 per cent. of the total inward investment from the United States and Japan that was made in the European Union. Black and Decker, for example, moved a production line to Britain from Germany–not even from the United States or Japan. Why? Because, in the words of one of its workers,

    “Industry is flexible and the social chapter isn’t.”

    Where is the Black and Decker factory? In a place called Spennymoor, bang in the middle of the constituency of the right hon. Member for Sedgefield.

    The deputy leader of the Labour party should ask his right hon. Friend whether he has seen any inward investment flooding into this country–or he could ask the hon. Member for Livingston. NEC is investing hundreds of millions of pounds to create hundreds of jobs in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency. I could have mentioned that Samsung is creating more than 3,000 jobs, that Fujitsu is creating 1, 600 or that Asat is creating 1,000. Up and down the land, there has been a vote of confidence from external investors in this country’s future, and in this Government’s management of the economy.

    Mr. George Howarth (Knowsley, North): At the 1992 general election, the Prime Minister and the then Chancellor of the Exchequer made it clear that they could conceive of no circumstances in which they would increase taxes if they won the election, yet afterwards they increased taxes. Can the Prime Minister help the House? At the time of the election, did the Prime Minister and the Chancellor know the true state of public finances and mislead the public, or did they not know the true state of public finances–in which case, why should anyone listen to the Prime Minister’s predictions now?

    The Prime Minister: I think that the hon. Gentleman could have done better than that if he had tried. He may live in his own little dream world, and he may have overlooked the fact that there was a worsening recession not here but elsewhere, which was why, right across Europe, unemployment rose and others ran into the difficulties that we ran into in this country.

    If the hon. Gentleman is concerned about inconsistencies–perhaps in view of what his right hon. Friend the Member for Sedgefield had to say about taxes–perhaps he or his right hon. Friend could tell us why they now propose to introduce a windfall tax, a payroll tax, a health tax, an entertainment tax and a development tax. Perhaps, as they are so concerned about expenditure and taxation, they will tell us which of their spending commitments–to the minimum wage, the emergency employment programme, the new technology trusts or the abolition of compulsory competitive tendering- -they will scrap. For if their oratory is honest now, their policies are not; and if their policies are honest, their oratory is not. The sooner they square that circle, the sooner we will hear little lecturettes from them.

    Up and down the land, there has been a vote of confidence in the British economy from foreign investors. The right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull, East and the hon. Members for Livingston and for Dunfermline, East say none of that. They can, if they wish, remain the three blind mice on the Labour Front Bench, but foreign investors see what is happening in this country. To quote the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull, East, they have been “flooding in”, they are “flooding in” and, while they have a Conservative Government with the policies that we follow, they will continue to “flood in” and to provide jobs in the right hon. Member for Sedgefield’s constituency.

    Mr. Denis MacShane (Rotherham): Is the Prime Minister aware that, for every pound that has come into this country, more than two in the last year, and well over two in the past 15, have left? British Steel is investing £97 million in America, but nothing in this country. What policies does the Prime Minister offer to develop manufacturing based on investment by British firms in their own country?

    The Prime Minister: I am glad that the hon. Gentleman mentioned British Steel. I was in Port Talbot a fortnight ago–one of the most efficient steelworks in the world. It has the longest export order books that it has had for a long time and it is hugely successful. The hon. Gentleman may know nothing about steel making, but I suggest that he goes to Port Talbot to see for himself what I saw–the efficiency of that manufacturing industry in the United Kingdom. If the hon. Gentleman went to the motor show he would see a British motor industry that will soon be a net exporter of cars. If he visited Triumph motorcycles, which was killed by the Labour party, he would see it producing top-of-the-range motor cycles to sell to Germany, Japan, the United States and elsewhere. The Opposition run so well the story about British industry doing badly that they believe it. In reality, British industry is up off the knees on which it found itself when the Labour party was in office. It is now growing, investing, expanding and exporting to each and every part of the world. It is about time that the Labour party stopped knocking British industry whenever it has the chance.

    Mr. Skinner: Earlier, the Prime Minister talked about unemployment coming down. Is he aware that large sections of the British people do not believe his Government and their fiddled statistics? Does he understand that the other day independent figures were compiled on every British coalfield where many of the pits have shut? In Bolsover and north Derbyshire, the Prime Minister’s figures show unemployment at 12.5 per cent., but independent statistics show it to be 23.5 per cent. In Durham, the figure is 33 per cent. and it is the same in Ayrshire. In Wales, the figure is over 30 per cent. The truth is that all this twaddle, which has probably been written by Sarah Hogg, is a stranger to the truth.

    The Prime Minister: The hon. Gentleman is such a believer in conspiracies that he probably does not yet believe that there is really a Wednesday in the week. He should not squeak until he is squoken to.

    Dr. Spink: Will my right hon. Friend explain to me, to the House and to the nation why the Opposition are always running down this nation, running down our industry, our schools and our health service? Why do they not start talking Britain up?

    The Prime Minister: I suspect that there may be millions of people asking the same question over the next two and a half years.

    Dr. John Reid (Motherwell, North) rose —

    The Prime Minister: If the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, I suspect that he or his hon. Friends may want to intervene later. I want to make some progress.

    I want to deal with the legislative programme for next year contained in the Gracious Speech. Over the years, we have introduced many controversial supply side measures, privatisations and deregulations. Time after time the Opposition have opposed them, yet they do not seem to follow that opposition through. They do not commit themselves to reversing those privatisations. We all know why. They know that the privatisations are right, but they want to capitalise on public concerns when the measures are going through the House. If the Labour party’s opposition is genuine, let it commit itself now to reversing all the privatisation measures that we have carried out. If it does not do so, it should keep quiet and realise that those measures have greatly improved the efficiency of British industry in recent years.

    The Opposition will not commit themselves to that because they know that privatisation works. They know also that renationalisation would blow for good and all the belief that this is a new Labour party in any sense. Whatever the balance between public and private sector might be, the Opposition usually, and grudgingly, think that it happens to be right at the time. They do not know whether to go forward or back. They do not say yes and they do not say no. They loathe private ownership, but they dare not reverse it.

    We intend to proceed with privatisation. This year, we shall privatise the Crown Agents. [Hon. Members:– “Oh.”] I am glad to hear support from Opposition Members–I hope that it will be translated into support in the Division Lobby. Crown Agents plays a significant role in delivering our aid programme. We have agreed with its board that the best way of developing its services is in the private sector.

    We shall introduce a Gas Bill to bring genuine competition into the gas industry. Consumers already benefit from a fall, after inflation, of more than 20 per cent. in gas prices and they will reap further benefits. New suppliers will be able to enter the gas supply market, giving customers more choice and better service. Safeguards protecting price, safety, standards and social obligations will remain for as long as they are necessary.

    The Agricultural Tenancies Bill will make it easier for tenants to rent land and to benefit from the improvements that they make to it. Landlords and tenants will gain greater freedom in negotiating the terms of a tenancy, within a framework that protects legitimate interests and that guarantees that tenants are rewarded for any improvements that they may make. That has been agreed by landlords and tenants alike and will open up opportunities for young farmers to take their first step in the industry.

    Mr. William O’Brien (Normanton): The Prime Minister gave a catalogue of successes in industry. Will he comment on how the building industry will prosper in the coming year? There is a need for rented houses and for improvements to houses, yet no reference is made in the Gracious Speech to the building industry. Has he a comment to make on the future of the building industry?

    The Prime Minister: I am not sure what legislation, for that is what the Queen’s Speech deals with, the hon. Gentleman may have in mind for the building industry. The growth in the economy, which we are now seeing, will bring the building industry back to greater health. That is the way in which to bring it back to proper health. We shall introduce the Jobseeker’s Allowance Bill to help more and more unemployed people back into work. The new allowance will replace unemployment benefit and income support and will underline the bargain between job seekers and taxpayers. Job seekers are right to expect benefits but the taxpayer is right to expect a job seeker to seek a job, and the Bill will ensure that that is so.

    Mr. Derek Enright (Hemsworth): Come to my area.

    The Prime Minister: The hon. Gentleman should get his head out of the sand and look at the falling total of unemployed people. The figure has been falling for nearly two years. One day he might acknowledge that this country is doing better than almost any other in western Europe in putting people in work, in keeping people in work and in having the highest level of adult population in work. The Channel Tunnel Rail Link Bill will allow private finance to contribute to the development of one of the most important infrastructure improvements of recent years. Both public and private sectors will have a role to play and the project will be likely to create between 10,000 and 15,000 jobs.

    The Pensions Bill will implement all the main recommendations of the Goode committee. It will offer greater protection for members of occupational pensions schemes and it will implement a common pension age for men and women at 65, which I was interested to note was accepted as reasonable by the Commission on Social Justice.

    Mr. John Prescott (Kingston upon Hull, East): Has the Prime Minister read the report?

    The Prime Minister: I have read the commission’s report. I recommend it to insomniacs. We have a meaty programme of supply side reforms and I look forward to introducing them to the House. We shall also introduce the European Communities (Finance) Bill to give effect to the financial arrangements reached at the Edinburgh summit.

    Mr. D. N. Campbell-Savours (Workington): Will the Prime Minister tell us whether the £250 million predicted increase in the United Kingdom’s contribution includes forecast increases in gross domestic product by the end of the century? Can we have a straight answer to the question?

    The Prime Minister: The straight answer is yes. I hope that that is straight enough for the hon. Gentleman. I must say that, having asked for a straight answer, he looks very discomfited to have actually got one. I suggest that, if he does not want a straight answer, perhaps he should have asked his right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition.

    Dr. John Reid (Motherwell, North) rose —

    The Prime Minister: I will make some progress, if the hon. Gentleman will forgive me.

    I am still saying it: consistency is a virtue. Those financial arrangements were warmly welcomed at the time, and for good reason. They safeguarded our rebate–worth £2 billion a year. They produced the smallest-ever increase in own resources, and over a longer period, and they moved this country significantly down the list of net contributors to the European Union budget. The difference that the new arrangements will make, compared with what we would otherwise have paid, is to increase this country’s net contribution to the European Union by £75 million next year, rising to around £250 million in 1999, with the qualification that I conceded a moment ago. My right hon. and learned Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer has set out the figures clearly to all hon. Members.

    I have seen suggestions that the new arrangements would double our net contributions, which is nonsense and can safely be dismissed out of hand. The outcome of the Edinburgh agreement was reported to the House and strongly supported here. This Bill is necessary to honour that agreement. We shall introduce it early in the Session and take it through speedily.

    No one should doubt the importance of securing the Bill unchanged and early. I know that some hon. Members dislike it, but it is not an optional measure that can be used as a bargaining counter for other European negotiations. It is an international commitment, entered into two years ago with the full support of the Cabinet. No British Government would have credibility in international negotiations if they failed to implement the agreements that they had freely entered into with their partners abroad, so for that reason there is no room for compromise on the Bill. That means that its successful passage in all its essentials is inescapably a matter of confidence, because of the agreements reached with our European partners. I hope that there is no doubt in the House about that.

    Mr. A. J. Beith (Berwick-upon-Tweed): Is the Prime Minister making it clear to the House that, if the Government were to lose any vote on the Bill, he would seek a dissolution and the country would have the opportunity of a general election?

    The Prime Minister: I have just made it perfectly clear that the Bill must be passed in all its essentials to ensure that we honour the obligations that we entered into with our European partners.

    Mr. Tony Marlow (Northampton, North): In the spirit of friendship, may I put it to my right hon. Friend that if the passage of the Bill were made contingent on effective measures and results in combating European fraud he might have a more coherent response?

    The Prime Minister: I made it clear in my speech at Leiden earlier this year that it was important that the whole of the European Union attacked the outrageous problem of fraud that exists in Europe. The figures that we have just seen were produced by the Court of Auditors, which, I remind the House, has its present powers because the British Government in general, and I in particular, demanded them in the Maastricht treaty. I must tell my hon. Friend that I did so because I believe that fraud in the European Union is unforgivable and must be rooted out.

    The British Government have been the leader in the European Union in rooting out fraud. We have less fraud in this country than anywhere else in the European Union, and my right hon. Friends and I intend to press again and again to ensure that the Court of Auditors has the powers necessary to root out fraud across the Community. I shall say something else to my hon. Friend, because I hope that he will back me here, too. In order to do as I have said, it may be necessary for the Court of Auditors to have greater powers to go into each country in the Community, including this country as part of the European Union, to root out fraud. I believe that it should have those powers, and I support them. We shall do all that we can to minimise, and then to eliminate, fraud in the European Union. I can certainly give my hon. Friend that assurance, but he need not tie it to the Bill, for we embarked on that several months ago.

    The House will know that earlier this summer the Government began to consult on a range of proposals to improve the position of disabled people. Following the consultation–

    Mr. Robert N. Wareing (Liverpool, West Derby) rose —

    The Prime Minister: I shall give way to the hon. Gentleman in a moment. Following the consultation, we decided to go further and, contrary to our original intimation to hon. Members, to propose a Government Bill in the Gracious Speech, rather than producing a hand-out private Member’s Bill. We have an excellent record over the years, and a great deal has been achieved.

    Mr. Tom Clarke (Monklands, West) rose —

    The Prime Minister: I have already promised to give way to the hon. Member for Liverpool, West Derby (Mr. Wareing), and I shall do so in a moment. A great deal has been achieved, but we can and should do more. The Bill will follow an exercise that focused not only on what should be done but on how it could be done and how quickly. The Government will announce the details of the Bill shortly. Let me simply say now that it will include a right not to be discriminated against in employment, a right of access to goods and services and the establishment of a national disability council to ensure that the voice of disabled people is heard more clearly within Government.

    Mr. Wareing: The Prime Minister will be aware that in 1983 I introduced a private Member’s Bill to outlaw all discrimination against disabled people, but that it was outrageously attacked by the Government and Conservative Members were dragooned into the Division Lobby to oppose it. The same thing happened to the Bill recently introduced by my hon. Friend the Member for Kingswood (Mr. Berry). I was told at the time that education and persuasion represented the way forward.

    The Queen’s Speech says only that the Government will introduce a Bill to “tackle” discrimination. It is not enough simply to select employment and one or two other aspects. Will the Prime Minister give an undertaking that the legislation will make it illegal to discriminate against disabled people, as it is to discriminate against people on the grounds of race, sex or religion?

    The Prime Minister: I have set out what will be in the Bill, and the hon. Gentleman will have the chance to read it as soon as it is published. The Minister for Social Security and Disabled People will make the details clear.

    Mr. Tom Clarke: Will the Prime Minister give way?

    The Prime Minister: I am replying to the hon. Member for Liverpool, West Derby. If the hon. Member for Monklands, West (Mr. Clarke) will do me the courtesy of listening, I shall contemplate giving way to him when I have finished.

    I have set out the details of what will be in the Bill, and I advise the hon. Member for West Derby to wait until he sees those details, which will be debated fully in the House and in Committee.

    Mr. Tom Clarke: Is the Prime Minister aware that nothing that he has said corresponds with the measures in the Bill that my hon. Friend the Member for Kingswood sought to introduce, which was disgracefully talked out by Conservative Members? As a former Whip, and as a former Minister responsible for disabled people, will he discourage The Guardian from saying that simply because the Government have introduced a Bill nobody else can introduce a Bill on the same subject? Does the right hon. Gentleman accept that if my hon. Friend or any other hon. Member introduces such a Bill, he should discourage the Government Whips from talking it out and denying the rights of 6.5 million disabled people and their carers?

    The Prime Minister: I have limited influence over The Guardian, as recent events have shown; the hon. Gentleman must take up his complaints about The Guardian with that newspaper. As for the position of disabled people, he, too, would be wiser to wait and read the Bill before making judgments on it.

    The remainder of the legislative programme will honour a number of important commitments that we have given. The Criminal Justice (Scotland) Bill will be another important step in the Government’s battle against crime.

    Dr. Norman A. Godman (Greenock and Port Glasgow) rose —

    The Prime Minister: I shall make some progress now; I know that many hon. Members wish to speak.

    Dr. Godman: Will the Prime Minister give way?

    The Prime Minister: Not on this point. Like the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994, the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Bill will crack down on those who offend on bail, increase the courts’ powers to confiscate the assets of crime and streamline the operation of the courts.

    The Environment Bill will set up an environment protection agency and a Scottish environment protection agency. I suspect that that will be widely welcomed in the House and elsewhere.

    The Health Service Bill will take forward our programme of reform by streamlining the national health service management structure. The right hon. Member for Sedgefield spoke about expenditure in the national health service on administration. I look, therefore, for his support for the abolition of one entire tier of the management structure in the regional health authorities. They will be abolished while the district health authorities and family health authorities will be merged. We shall judge whether the right hon. Gentleman’s words are matched by his actions in the Division Lobby as we seek to cut administrative expenditure.

    We will introduce a Bill to provide for the supervision of those discharged under the Mental Health Act 1983. This is to ensure greater security for the community and better welfare for those recovering from mental illness. Many hon. Members will be aware of the problems that have arisen in that area. I believe that the Bill will be warmly welcomed and I am grateful for the intimations from the Opposition that they will help to speed the Bill through to law. There are three important additional measures that we intend to introduce under the general heading of law reform. The Criminal Appeals Bill follows the Government’s acceptance of the recommendation of the Royal Commission on criminal justice that a new body is needed to consider possible cases of miscarriage of justice. The new body will be independent of both Government and the courts and it will be able to review wrongful convictions.

    The Children (Scotland) Bill will ensure a comprehensive reform of child care in Scotland. It follows the reports of the inquiries into the Orkney and Fife incidents, and the White Paper of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland, “Scotland’s Children: Proposals for Child Care Policy and Law”, published last year.

    Dr. Godman: Will the Prime Minister give way?

    The Prime Minister: If the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, I shall tell him bluntly that I shall not give way to him on this occasion. The Bill’s welfare measures include the introduction of more flexible arrangements for local authorities to care for children in need and the introduction of more stringent criteria for taking children into care.

    We shall also introduce a Medical Act (Amendment) Bill to introduce new procedures to enable the General Medical Council to deal with the very small minority of doctors whose performance is found to be seriously deficient.

    Those are measures of reform which, I believe, will command widespread support in the House. I am encouraged by the overt support already given to these Bills across the House and I trust that we shall be able to agree speedily on their handling. Those are some of the things that are important across the House.

    The right hon. Member for Sedgefield spoke of many things, but we did not hear a great deal about practical issues from him. We have heard a great deal from the right hon. Gentleman about new Labour, although no one seems quite sure what that means. We are now getting some clues. I was especially interested in the way in which the right hon. Gentleman allocated his shadow Cabinet portfolios.

    Whom did the right hon. Member for Sedgefield choose as his shadow Foreign Secretary–Britain’s ambassador abroad? He picked the hon. Member for Livingston– [Hon. Members:– “Hear, hear.”] I agree: it is a choice entirely appropriate for the Labour party. Surely the hon. Member for Livingston is not the man who, as the cold war was heating up, “pleaded with” and “begged”–his words–the Labour conference to vote for unilateral nuclear disarmament. Surely this is not the same man who spent much of his political life equivocating over whether Britain should be in the European Union. Apparently, the answer is yes. There is not much new there.

    The hon. Member for Livingston is not the only clue–

    Mr. Campbell-Savours: Tired old arguments.

    The Prime Minister: They are tired old arguments, I know, but they are the best that the Labour party has got.

    The hon. Member for Livingston is not the only clue; there are other square pegs in round holes. Let us take the shadow defence team. What do they have in common? The answer is consistency. They are consistently against Britain’s nuclear defences. The hon. Member for South Shields (Dr. Clark), the man to whom the Leader of the Opposition would entrust Britain’s nuclear defences, is a member of parliamentary CND. Indeed, he is not alone. I have a list, which my hon. Friends may care to hear. It includes the right hon. Member for Derby, South and the hon. Member for Holborn and St. Pancras (Mr. Dobson)– [Hon. Members:– “More.”] There are lots more Opposition Members who are against our nuclear capacity. I am just telling the hon. Member for Workington (Mr. Campbell-Savours) who they are. The list includes the hon. Members for Peckham (Ms Harman), for Oldham, West (Mr. Meacher), for Islington, South and Finsbury (Mr. Smith), for Edinburgh, East (Dr. Strang), for Blackburn (Mr. Straw) and, of course, the right hon. Member for Sedgefield. All that gives a new meaning to being brothers in arms. They would scrap our nuclear weapons.

    It is another clue– [Hon. Members:– “You have missed one out.”] I missed one out. I apologise to the hon. Gentleman. I am not sure who the hon. Gentleman is, but someone will tell me. It shows that they are not only against Britain’s nuclear capacity but are proud to be against Britain’s nuclear capacity and would scrap it. Why did we hear so much about Rosyth from Opposition Front-Bench spokesmen if that was the case?

    Mr. Campbell-Savours: Yesterday’s arguments.

    The Prime Minister: The hon. Gentleman says that they are yesterday’s arguments. They do not care about Rosyth now. The hon. Gentleman should keep quiet. He is digging himself a bigger hole by the minute.

    Another clue to Labour’s new team is the right hon. Member for Sedgefield’s choice for his shadow Treasury team–the team responsible for setting and collecting taxes.

    Dr. Reid: He said something about taxes.

    The Prime Minister: I shall say something on taxes in which the hon. Gentleman will be interested. Only a fortnight ago, the hon. Member for Bristol, South (Ms Primarolo) was talking about the importance of collecting tax–absolutely right, vitally responsible. But, some small thing nagged away at my memory. Was not it the hon. Lady who supported a campaign urging people not to pay their community charge? So there we have it–new Labour. The person that the right hon. Gentleman has put in charge of collecting tax was part of the campaign inciting people to break the law and refuse to pay their tax. So, there is not very much new about Labour there either. Over the past four years, I have consistently pursued a number of long-term objectives.

    Mr. Campbell-Savours: Tell us then.

    The Prime Minister: I am about to. They include low inflation. For the first time, we may be in a position where we have broken the inflationary psychology that has damaged this country time and again since the war. We have pursued objectives of supply side reform for lasting growth, a better quality of life for all our citizens, a higher standard of public service and a lasting peace in Northern Ireland. They remain at the centre of my objectives for this year and for the future. The programme outlined in the Gracious Speech will take those objectives forward and I warmly commend it to the House.