Tag: Maastricht Treaty

  • PMQT – 16 January 1992

    Below is the text of Prime Minister’s Question Time from 16th January 1992.


    PRIME MINISTER:

     

    Engagements

    Q1. Mr. Winnick : To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 16 January.

    The Prime Minister (Mr. John Major) : This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet and had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House, I shall be having further meetings later today.

    Mr. Winnick : In view of the evidence given yesterday should there not be a full and frank ministerial statement–which should come from the Prime Minister–of what was known inside the Government at the time about the supergun affair? Bearing in mind the number of military items sold to the Iraqi regime by this country right up to the invasion of Kuwait and the highly critical comments made about the conduct of Ministers during the Gulf war, what right do the Government have to lecture hon. Members on the Opposition Benches over defence matters?

    The Prime Minister : In so far as the Gulf war is concerned, the hon. Gentleman is referring to one of the most successful military operations ever undertaken by this country or any other. It achieved its objectives more swiftly and with less bloodshed than anyone could possibly have imagined. As to the earlier part of the hon. Gentleman’s question, he knows that much of what he said was nonsense. It has been dealt with often enough.

     

    Q2. Mr. McGrady : To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 16 January.

    The Prime Minister : I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. McGrady : Could I remind the Prime Minister that one of the consequences of his Maastricht agreement is to prevent Northern Ireland from participating in the new cohesion fund, to the extent of losing tens of millions of pounds? I am sure that he is aware of the total lack of adequate funding for roads, transport and the environment in Northern Ireland, especially now that the Secretary of State has imposed a total moratorium on all public spending in Northern Ireland. Would he assure the people of Northern Ireland and the House that as soon as possible he will remedy that appalling error, and allow Northern Ireland to benefit from the new cohesion fund as a category 1 area?

    The Prime Minister : There is, as the hon. Gentleman knows, a higher level of public expenditure per head of population in Northern Ireland–and rightly so–than anywhere else in the United Kingdom. The establishment of the cohesion fund and eligibility to benefit from it were agreed by all the member states. There is a misapprehension that Northern Ireland is the only category 1 area that will not benefit from that, but that fund is designed to help the poorest member states, not poorer regions or provinces within the more prosperous nations. So, the hon. Gentleman does not understand the purpose for which the fund was devised.

     

    Q3. Mr. Gwilym Jones : To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 16 January.

    The Prime Minister : I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. Jones : Will my right hon. Friend assure the House that he has no plans to increase income tax and national insurance contributions for millions of ordinary taxpayers? Does he agree that it is the height of irresponsibility to try to pretend that there can be a massive increase in spending from day one of a Government if the tax increases to pay for that are to be phased in?

    The Prime Minister : I can also confirm to my hon. Friend that we have made no plans for a super increase in VAT, as the Opposition have apparently considered. There is no doubt that the Opposition are now in a shambles over their tax plans. Their muddled statements show that they cannot be trusted on tax ; they shift their position from day to day. The only thing that is certain is that a party that promises to spend and spend is a party that would have to tax and tax.

    Mr. Kinnock : Will the Prime Minister tell us why his record on unemployment is even worse than that of his predecessor?

    The Prime Minister : Everyone in the House and beyond regrets the fact that unemployment rises. That is why we are persisting with policies that will create long-term, permanent jobs for the future. We have put those policies in place–low inflation, lower taxes and lower interest rates. Those are the only measures that will get people into work and keep them in work, which is the only proper policy to follow.

    Mr. Kinnock : Unemployment has risen by nearly 1 million in the time that the hon. Gentleman has been Chancellor and Prime Minister, but still he refuses to do anything useful to stop that remorseless rise. Is it not because he believes that 2.5 million unemployed is “a price worth paying”?

    The Prime Minister : The right hon. Gentleman should not be so cheap over such a problem. Unemployment is greater than a year ago in every country in EFTA and in every G7 country except the Netherlands. French unemployment is at its greatest level ever. United States unemployment is higher than for the past five years. What the right hon. Gentleman might also have fastened his mind upon is the fact that reported job vacancies are rising, that the number of people placed in jobs is rising and that there are 500,000 more people in work than in 1979. Those are some of the facts which the right hon. Gentleman should absorb.

    Mr. Kinnock : The right hon. Gentleman is a dodger.

    [Interruption.]

    Mr. Speaker : Order.

    Mr. Kinnock : In the last year employment in Britain went down by 873,000. Job vacancies are still 10,000 lower than they were this time last year. When Sir Nicholas Goodison of the Trustee Savings Bank says that this is the worst recession in living memory, is it any wonder that the whole country knows that this is the Government of high unemployment?

    The Prime Minister : Some people might say that on policy rather than on personal matters the right hon. Gentleman is a tax dodger. He can give no lecture to us on unemployment. [Hon. Members :– “Withdraw.”] His policies would cut jobs across the whole country.

    Hon. Members : Withdraw.

    Mr. Speaker : Order. I do not think that that was meant in a personal sense.

    The Prime Minister : Indeed ; I expressly said that, Mr. Speaker. The right hon. Gentleman’s minimum wage would increase unemployment by putting 2 million people out of work. His plans to slash defence budgets by £6 billion would cost 100,000 more their jobs. His tax on jobs would cost another 100,000. He is the only person in opposition to plan for greater unemployment as a matter of policy.

    Mr. Nicholls : Will my right hon. Friend confirm that if the upper earnings limit on national insurance contributions– [Interruption.]

    Mr. Speaker : Order. I ask the House to settle down.

    Mr. Nicholls : Will my right hon. Friend confirm that if the upper earnings limit on national insurance contributions were to be removed, it would punish not just somebody earning £20,280 a year but would punish anyone who earned £390 in a single week? Does he agree that a proposal that would impose a massive tax burden on 4 million ordinary people could be produced only by a shower such as those who currently comprise the Opposition?

    The Prime Minister : My hon. Friend is quite right– [Interruption.]

    Mr. Speaker : Order. The House is in a very excited state.

    The Prime Minister : My hon. Friend is right. I suspect that the Labour party simply did not understand when it drew up its policy that everyone would pay more national insurance contributions in a single week if they earned above one fifty second of statutory UEL. The Independent pointed out, for example, that the Opposition’s tax plans would mean

    “the largest ever peacetime tax increase.”

    The Leader of the Opposition promised explicitly that anyone earning less than £21,000 a year would not pay a penny tax extra in income tax or national insurance under a Labour Government. Clearly, he was wrong about that. He should admit it, and do so publicly.

     

    Q4. Mr. Canavan : To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 16 January.

    The Prime Minister : I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. Canavan : Will the Prime Minister confirm that he personally was informed about British Steel’s decision to close Ravenscraig over a fortnight before the official announcement last week–[ Hon. Members :– “Oh?”]–and that instead of trying to reverse the decision, he and the Secretary of State for Scotland took part in a conspiracy of silence? Will the right hon. Gentleman now, even at this late stage, intervene to try to stop the closure, bearing in mind the Government’s responsibility for privatising the steel industry, thereby allowing a butcher such as Bob Scholey to betray the Scottish steel workers?

    The Prime Minister : It is noticeable that the Labour party has not offered to keep Ravenscraig open. I was informed that British Steel would be making a decision on the day that it made the decision– [Interruption.] I was informed in confidence some days before that it would be making a decision on that day. It was a commercial decision by British Steel. It is clear, despite all their words, that Opposition Members would have done nothing different.

    Mr. Irvine : Does my right hon. Friend agree that defence cuts of £6 billion would lead to a massive loss of jobs in defence industries throughout the country? Does he further agree about the hypocrisy of those who call on the one hand for the maintenance of defence contracts in public and, on the other, plan in private for defence reductions?

    The Prime Minister : My hon. Friend makes a good point. Our policy, both for nuclear and conventional defence, is clear, has been set out in a number of documents and is properly costed. The Opposition do not say where they stand, cannot say where they stand and cannot admit to the jobs that would be lost if their policy were carried out. The Labour party conference has three times voted to cut £6 billion from the defence budget, and we can see the extent to which that would devastate the defence industry and the defence of this country.

     

    Q5. Mr. Madden : To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 16 January.

    The Prime Minister : I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. Madden : Might I ask the right hon. Gentleman a question about which I gave notice to his office earlier this morning? Will he arrange for X-ray and metal detection equipment to be installed immediately at Armley prison in Leeds? I ask for this following a serious breach of security at the prison last Friday, when a visitor inside the prison drew a knife and sought to attack another visitor. As this is the latest in a series of serious breaches of security at prisons, will the Prime Minister call upon the Home Secretary, who has clearly lost control of his own Department and no longer enjoys the confidence of the public, to resign now or else sack him?

    The Prime Minister : First, I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving me notice of the detailed point that he wished to raise. Security at prisons holding category A prisoners is already very tight, with rigorous searching procedures. In addition, however, we are providing X-ray equipment, as the hon. Gentleman has suggested we should. A contract has been placed for the supply of this equipment to prisons that hold category A prisoners. Devices have to be specially constructed, and they will be delivered as soon as possible.

    In reply to the hon. Gentleman’s last point, I can say that I have complete confidence in my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary.

     

    Q6. Mr. Evennett : To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 16 January.

    The Prime Minister : I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. Evennett : Does my right hon. Friend agree that to base defence policy on defence cuts–the North Sea oil of the 1990s–is irresponsible and misguided? Is my right hon. Friend aware that the Opposition Front- Bench spokesman on Treasury affairs has actually stated this as a belief–

    Mr. Speaker : Order. The hon. Gentleman must ask a question about Government policy.

    Mr. Evennett : Will my right hon. Friend confirm that Labour remains unsound on defence?

    The Prime Minister : Yes, it is clear that, as my hon. Friend says, Labour would cut the defence budget to ribbons. It is true that on defence Labour cannot be trusted. [Interruption.]

    Mr. Speaker : Order. Will the Prime Minister please answer the matters for which he has responsibility?

    The Prime Minister : I am seeking to do precisely that. It is perfectly clear that, while the defence of this country is the first priority of the present Government, it might not be the first priority of the Opposition if they were to make the defence cuts to which they have committed themselves.

  • Mr Major’s Commons Statement on Maastricht – 18 December 1991

    Below is Mr Major’s statement made in the House of Commons on the Maastricht Treaty on 18th December 1991.


    PRIME MINISTER:

    I beg to move,

    That this House congratulates the Prime Minister on achieving all the negotiating objectives set out in the motion that was supported by the House on 21st November; and warmly endorses the agreement secured by the Government at Maastricht.

    In no other country of the Community have the issues that were decided at Maastricht been as hotly debated as they have been in this country. I have found in discussions with fellow Heads of Government that they have been frankly astonished by the amount of coverage in our media and by the intensity of the debate that we have had in this country over many months. I think that that coverage is not just a reflection of the measure of controversy ; it reflects also the Government’s determination to ensure that the fullest information was available to the House and the country before the European Council. It is perhaps also a reflection of a national characteristic–it is by no means a new one.

    After meeting Macmillan in Bermuda in 1957, Eisenhower wrote : “Any conference with the British requires the most detailed discussion. They do not like to sign any generalisations in a hurry, no matter how plausible or attractive they may be, but once their signature is appended to a document, complete confidence can be placed in their performance.”

    He went on, rather unkindly the House may think, to say : “French negotiators sometimes seem to prefer to sign first and then to begin discussion.”

    In this country, every detail of the negotiations has been pored over both by hon. Members and by the press, and not only by them. I have had letters in recent weeks from the public–from schoolchildren, very well informed– on the pros and cons of a single currency, but I suspect that in a number of other Community countries the real debate is only just beginning.

    Last month, I set out the issues that would be argued over at Maastricht. No one here or elsewhere in Europe could have been unaware of what we were arguing for. I explicitly said that we would not change our position at the very end of the negotiations. We did not, but we did achieve our objectives.

    A full text of the treaty on European union is in the Library of the House. Jurists and linguists will ensure that the text is ready for signature at the beginning of February, but the treaty will enter into force only once all 12 member states have ratified it. The Luxembourg European Council last June agreed that this process should take place during 1992 so that the treaty can enter into force on 1 January 1993.

    Before we shall be able to ratify the treaty, it will need to be incorporated into United Kingdom law by amending the European Communities Act 1972. As I assured the right hon. Member for Chesterfield (Mr. Benn) last week, it would not be right to carry through that legislation in the remainder of this Parliament. It will properly be a matter for the next Parliament.

    This afternoon, I should like to set out what the agreement means and how I see the future development of the European Community. The misleading and controversial word “federal” has now been removed from the text of the treaty. Our partners agreed to return to the words of the original treaty of Rome–

    “ever closer union among the peoples of Europe”.

    That has a different connotation. It means that the interests of the Community’s citizens must come first and foremost.

    That has always been the Government’s approach. That is why Britain drove the creation of a single European market to the top of the Community agenda. It is why we have argued for reform of the common agricultural policy, and it is why my right hon. Friend the Member for Finchley (Mrs. Thatcher) fought for and won a fair budget settlement for this country.

    I believe that the Community has made a unique contribution to the development of post-war Europe. Our future is as a European power, albeit as one with continuing responsibilities in many parts of the world. The balance of national interests lies clearly in making a success of our membership of the Community, so we must work with the Community to make sure that the Community works for the whole of Europe, and especially in the interests of the people of Britain. The Community can fulfil its role properly only if it responds to the needs of its European citizens. It must respect national identity and national traditions. It must not, in the name of some wider European ambition, override the democratic wishes of the people of any one of its member states.

    That is why the treaties now agreed at Maastricht were so hard-fought. Real British national interests were at stake in those discussions. The Government’s job was to safeguard and to advance those interests. It was not to sign up, without critical examination, to anything that was presented to us with a European label. I set out to the House a month ago exactly what our goals would be and what we could and could not accept. The outcome matches up to those goals and commitments in every respect. The most significant agreement of the Maastricht treaties is the agreement to co-operate in a legally binding but intergovernmental framework in the three key areas of law and order, foreign policy, and defence policy. Many of our partners would have preferred to conduct that co-operation through the institutions of the Community. That was not acceptable to us; nor, in my judgment, would it have worked. We have been able to draw a crucial distinction between those areas, such as the single market, where the Community institutions are the best tools for the job, and other areas, such as foreign policy and the fight against crime, where direct co-operation between national capitals is likely to produce the best result.

    However, despite that satisfactory outcome, no one in the House should assume that that argument has been settled for all time. Some Community member states will go on pressing for a united states of Europe, with all co-operation within one institutional framework. We shall continue to argue forcefully against that proposition, and I believe that we will win the argument in the future as we have thus far.

    The treaty on political union was a challenge as well as an opportunity. The challenge was to ensure that we checked the encroachment of the Community’s institutions. The opportunity was to make the Community work better. In the event, a large number of the agreements that were reached stemmed specifically from proposals that were put forward by the United Kingdom. It is worth stating the extent of those proposals. Our proposals were for stronger European security and defence co-operation, making the Western European Union the defence pillar of the European union, while preserving the primacy of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation. For us, the prime importance of NATO was a vital national interest, and that has been secured.

    Our proposals were also for a common foreign and security policy going beyond the Single European Act, but remaining outside the treaty of Rome and beyond the reach of the European Court. They were for co-operation on interior and justice matters, but also for co-operation outside the treaty of Rome and the jurisdiction of the European Court. They were also for co-operation for greater financial accountability, for a treaty article on subsidiarity–an article that specifically enshrines the crucial concept that the Community should undertake only those measures that could not be achieved at a national level–and for the right of the European Court of Justice to impose fines on those member states that fail to comply with its judgments, or with Community law, having previously signed up to it. We won agreement to all those proposals, and it was vital to the interests of this country that we did.

    Mr. Tony Benn (Chesterfield) : Will the Prime Minister help with this paradox concerning the future of Europe? The west is moving towards union; the east is moving towards a looser association–a commonwealth idea. Is it not possible that the harmonisation of the interests of individual member states along commonwealth lines rather than by means of a union would offer a more durable future, given that the break-up in the east came about because centralisation occurred without the consent of the peoples of the countries involved?

    The Prime Minister : I have much sympathy with what the right hon. Gentleman has said. It is for that reason that I regard the innovation of the pillared structure operating on a co-operative basis outside the Community institutions as a very desirable development in the negotiations at Maastricht. I believe that it opens up new opportunities in the future for a European co-operation, which I believe is in all our interests–but outside the centralising institutions of the Commission, and outside the influence of the European Court of Justice. It is because of the extent of my sympathy with the right hon. Gentleman–although I would not, I believe, go as far as he would in that regard–that I believe that the agreement at Maastricht is so important.

    Mr. Nigel Spearing (Newham, South) : I am grateful to the Prime Minister for allowing me to intervene on the subject of centralised institutions. He mentioned subsidiarity, and article 3b of the treaty of union. Does he not agree that that unclear principle, on which it is very difficult to adjudicate, is totally limited by a phrase in the article? It applies to the Community only when the Community does not have matters “within its exclusive jurisdiction”.

    Given that, by virtue of its powers of regulation, the Community has a very wide area of exclusive jurisdiction, does not that limit subsidiarity, whatever it be, to a very narrow range of topics?

    The Prime Minister : Any action taken by the Community must not reach the level necessary to infringe the principle of subsidiarity. In essence, if it can better be done at national level, it ought not to be done at Community level. That is the principle that we have enshrined in the treaty. I shall return to that point in a few moments.

    Mr. James Wallace (Orkney and Shetland) : Will the Prime Minister give way?

    The Prime Minister : I will make a little progress. I shall return to that point; I ask the hon. Gentleman to be patient. Had it not been for Britain’s arguments, we would have had last week a treaty which brought foreign policy and interior and justice matters within the treaty of Rome. We would have had a Community setting itself up as a rival defence organisation to NATO. We would have lost our independent right to decide foreign policy. The European Parliament would have had equal rights with the Governments of member states to decide on the policies and laws of the Community, and the Community’s competence would have extended into virtually every area of our national life.

    I do not believe that it would have been right to agree to all that. It would not have been acceptable to this House or this country, and it would have been a betrayal of our national interests. Let me turn to social issues, and set out in detail the reasons why we could not agree to the social chapter in the treaty. Let me first remove a misunderstanding. The issue with the Community is not the quality of social provision in the countries of the Community. In Britain, we have a national health service free at the point of use– [Interruption.] It is free at the point of use, and it is the envy of Europe. Only one other European country is in a position to say that.

    We have a benefits safety net that puts many European socialist Governments to shame, and the issue before us is whether social policy should be dictated by Brussels or determined in this country. We have long accepted that there should be a social dimension to the activities of the Community. It makes sense, for example, to ensure that common standards of health and safety at work are observed. There are already agreed Community measures in the social area covering freedom of movement, collective redundancy arrangements and equal treatment for men and women in pay and social security.

    Ms. Dawn Primarolo (Bristol, South) : Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

    The Prime Minister : Not at the moment, if the hon. Lady will forgive me.

    They all help to make a reality of people’s freedom to seek a job anywhere in the Community, widening the opportunities open to all our citizens.

    We have not only agreed those measures; unlike some of our partners, we have implemented them. With Germany, we are the only member state that has implemented all the 18 directives so far adopted by the Community. We have made it clear that we will adopt and implement the majority of the proposals in the Community’s existing social action programme. Nineteen of the 33 measures so far published have been agreed by the Council of Ministers, and the United Kingdom has not blocked a single one of them. We have played a full part in the social dimensions of the Community, and no one has gone further.

    Mr. Tony Banks (Newham, North-West) : Will the Prime Minister make clear to the House and, perhaps therefore, the country something that is not understood? How is it that countries such as Greece, Portugal and Spain could put their names to the social chapter but the United Kingdom could not? Does the Prime Minister really want to be the leader of the “little boys up chimneys” party?

    The Prime Minister : If the hon. Gentleman had been patient, I would have turned from the social dimension to the social chapter about which he is talking.

    The social dimension exists under present Community competence. It is a matter in which we have been fully involved, and I have listed many of the areas of legislation that we have accepted, with a better record than anyone else in the Community. The social chapter covers the point raised by the hon. Member for Newham, North-West (Mr. Banks), and the point that others may have wished to raise. We have refused to accept that, in addition, the Community should intrude into aspects of social policy best decided nationally.

    The Government will not support proposals that would destroy jobs by imposing damaging costs on British industry. Companies know best how much they can afford in relation to their competitors, not the social affairs directorate in Brussels. That is why we are resisting the proposed working time directive, which would cost British employers up to £5 billion in the first year alone. There is also the part-time working directive, which would require up to 1.75 million part-time workers to pay national insurance contributions. The effect of that directive would be to impose extra costs on those workers at modest levels of earnings whose contributions burden the House lightened as recently as 1989.

    That single illustration gives the lie to the absurd notion that all proposals from Brussels are socially enlightened, and all resistance to them is from the dark ages. Who in this House wants higher national insurance contributions on low-paid workers? That is what the directive proposes. If the Opposition support that, let them say so. If they do not want to do so, let them support us in resisting its imposition.

    Those are directives that the European Commission is endeavouring to make, even under its existing competence. That makes it abundantly clear why I was not prepared to accept a further massive extension of competence in this field.

    Mr. Stuart Bell (Middlesbrough) : The Prime Minister is telling the House that he totally misunderstands the social charter and the social chapter. Europeans regard the social dimension, the social chapter and the social charter as one and the same. Will the Prime Minister tell me and the House how he will feel when he signs the treaty, and the protocol that deals with the social charter? He will not sign, but will exclude Britain from the institutions of the Community, from all its mechanisms and from every aspect of this policy. How will he feel when he does not sign that page?

    The Prime Minister : The protocol is not in the treaty; it is adjacent to the treaty, but it is not in it. The protocol will not apply to us. It will not impose damaging costs on British industry and workers. I feel, as so many employers in this country and abroad feel, that it will give a competitive advantage to this country, not a competitive disadvantage. The social chapter would have implied that laws could have been imposed on the United Kingdom, by a qualified majority vote of member states, on working conditions, rights of information and consultation–including that of unions to block essential business decisions–and any action related to the provision of jobs for unemployed people. These would have ceased to be a matter for decision by this House and by British employers and employees, according to the needs of this country.

    The Community’s ambitions would not have ended with those matters : social security and protection, union rights to representation of workers, union involvement in company management and the conditions of employment of non-resident workers from outside the Community would all have been explicit Community responsibilities. That, without a shred of doubt, would have been a recipe for a centralised Community social policy, which could not possibly have taken account of wide variations in traditional practice, culture and experience. It is clear that it would have enabled costly laws to be imposed, irrespective of the needs of our economy and our jobs, and I was not prepared to accept that.

    Ms. Ruddock : Will the Prime Minister confirm that Britain has the lowest maternity pay of any country in the Community and, in the context of the remarks that he has just made, is he satisfied with that state of affairs?

    The Prime Minister : Britain has the longest maternity leave, as the hon. Lady may know, of any country in Europe : this House decided that, and the hon. Lady has to recognise that point. It is for the House to determine that.

    Let me turn to article 118b in the agreement of the 11, of which the Opposition are so fond. Let me explain to the House what the agreement that I rejected says about the role of collective agreements at Community level, rather than what some have led us to believe in recent days. It provides for such agreements between Community-level representatives of management and labour. That means, principally, the Union of Industrial and Employers Confederations of Europe and the European Trades Union Congress–a body whose combined membership is no more than one in four employees in the Community. It provides that such agreements shall be implemented in member states in one of two ways.

    The first is to require such agreements to be implemented directly in member states according to their own procedures. Such agreements could cover any matter, including pay, the right to join a union and the right to strike. The only exclusions from those provisions are what Community-led employers and unions fail to agree on. The second way is to require the Council, at the request of these employers and unions, to implement these agreements through Community law, enforceable through the European Court. In this case all the matters within the huge range of Community competence that I have described could come within the scope of such agreements. Only pay, the right to join a union and the right to strike would be excluded.

    The Opposition told us the exclusions, but they failed to mention the list of inclusions. The matters included run to union law as well as the laws affecting individuals–rights of recognition and negotiation, the right to block company decisions–and nowhere in the proposals tabled are collective rights excluded from action, and laws could be imposed on this country without the agreement not only of its Government but without the agreement of its Government, its employers and its employees. That is not acceptable.

    The Opposition cannot credibly claim that such extraordinary provisions would not recreate precisely the kind of national bargaining–but now at a Community level–which created what was called the “British disease” of the 1960s and 1970s, so I rejected those proposals. I shall not turn back the clock to the failure of the corporatism of the 1960s and 1970s. I do not believe that the British people want to see Europe trying as national Governments tried in the 1960s and 1970s–

    Mr. Tony Blair (Sedgefield) : Will the Prime Minister confirm that, in relation to the first way that he mentioned, the declaration attached to article 118 states that none of the agreements can impose

    “any obligation to amend national legislation in order to facilitate their implementation.” ?

    Will he also confirm that, in relation to the second way, they are all covered by article 118b, which specifically exempts the right to strike and union legislation?

    The Prime Minister : The hon Gentleman is wrong on his second point. There is the possibility, the probability and even the certainty of supranational agreements being imposed on this country as a result of these agreements. I am not prepared to accept that on behalf of this country. Neither–on the basis of the experience of what is happening under the existing social provisions–was I prepared to trust the Commission not to stretch the new definitions of the proposed social chapter. We have seen what the Commission is doing with the working time directive under the health and safety article– [Interruption.]

    Mr. Speaker : Order. I ask the House to settle down.

    The Prime Minister : We have seen what the Commission is doing in terms of the present health and safety article, and I am not prepared to take the risk of that happening again, with the Commission stretching its responsibilities.

    Finally, I am not prepared to envisage a situation in which labour regulation, I am not prepared to envisage a situation in which labour regulation could be imposed on the United Kingdom even if the Government of the United Kingdom, the Confederation of British Industry in the United Kingdom and the Trades Union Congress in the United Kingdom had all voted against it, yet that is what the Opposition wish to support.

    Mr. Rees rose–

    The Prime Minister : I told the House on 20 November– [Interruption.]

    Mr. Speaker : Order. There are many people outside the House who are very interested in the debate and who want to know what the Prime Minister has to say. I ask the House to settle down.

    Mr. Rees : On such an important issue, on which the Prime Minister went three ways, would it not be a good idea if he were to ask the learned Attorney-General to give his view to the House?

    The Prime Minister : The learned Attorney-General’s view is that which I have expressed to the House.

    The proposal is unacceptable, and that is why we rejected it. It is also the view of British industry and commerce and of other people all around Europe that we have made the right decision. Perhaps the Opposition would be interested to hear what the rest of the world says. The Environment Commissioner, Mr. Carlo Ripa di Meana, said that the agreements that we have reached would make Britain “the most attractive country for foreign investment.”

    The Japanese equivalent of the CBI has expressed concern about the consequences of the social chapter on labour flexibility and wage costs–we know how proud the Leader of the Opposition is of the Japanese investment in his constituency.

    The director general of the CBI has said that the agreement has achieved “exactly what business needs”. The director general of the Institute of Directors has described the outcome as

    “a triumph for British business”.

    The chairman of British Petroleum has said that he is “delighted”, and the chairman of ICI that this is probably as good an outcome as could have been hoped for.

    All those people with direct experience of industry are right, and the Opposition are wrong.

    I told the House on 20 November that, on economic and monetary union, there must be a provision to allow this country to decide whether–not just when–to join a single currency. That is what we have achieved–precisely, and in legally binding form. As a result, we are uniquely well placed to make a sensible judgment on this important question at the right time. If we do not wish to join, we are in no way obliged to do so. If we wish to join a single currency, it will be open to Parliament to decide to do so at exactly the same time as any of our partners.

    Let there be no doubt : Britain is among those who will meet the strict convergence conditions. We took the lead in setting them and will continue to be involved at every stage leading up to the decision whether to launch a single currency.

    Mr. Frank Cook rose —

    The Prime Minister : There are some who argue that the treaty creates such a strong momentum towards a single currency that, whatever our doubts, we shall be compelled by economic pressure to join when the time comes. I do not believe that. The balance of economic advantage will depend heavily on the circumstances in which a single currency is created–how many member states are involved, and whether the Community has met the convergence conditions. No one can judge now what the situation will be in five or six years’ time. No economic pressure could compel this country to join a single currency if Parliament judged the political disadvantages to be too great.

    Mr. Alex Salmond (Banff and Buchan) : Will the Prime Minister give way?

    The Prime Minister : I believe that it has been right for this country to maintain, as we have done, a two-way option–to go in if we judge it right to do so, but to stay out if we judge it right to do so. The debate about the European Community is littered…

    Mr. D. N. Campbell-Savours (Workington) : Does the Prime Minister believe that the existence of the two-way option will help Britain to attract the central bank to the United Kingdom?

    The Prime Minister : I think that it will do no harm whatever to our prospects. Many other countries believe that we are wise to have this option. We have all the advantages of determining the conditions up to entry and–uniquely–the right to go in or not, depending on whether it is right for our country. The debate about the European Community is littered with labels for people- -anti-European, pro-European, Euro-fanatic, Euro-sceptic or Europhobe. Those labels are echoes of a healthy debate, but they should not destroy our sense of purpose.

    No country has a greater capacity than ours to commit itself to a cause that it believes to be right–the history of this century clearly shows that. Many people in this country have committed themselves to membership of the Community with a similar sense of dedication. They made a commitment to an organisation which they believed would be a powerful force for good. I believe that they were right to do so.

    It was right to join, not just for the opportunities that the Community offers as a common market, not even for the economic strength of the Community collectively, but for the collective power of the European democracies to improve the general weight, politically and economically, of European opinion throughout the world. Nothing that has happened in the almost 20 years of our membership causes me to doubt the rightness of the original decision to join the Community.

    Mr. Frank Cook : Will the Prime Minister please, please, please give way?

    Mr. Speaker : Order. Will the hon. Gentleman please sit down?

    The Prime Minister : I have given way on nine or possibly even 10 occasions. I suspect that there are more than 600 hon. Members to whom I have not given way, and the hon. Member for Stockton, North (Mr. Cook) is one of them.

    As I said earlier, we attach great importance to the principle of subsidiarity. It is not only a defence of our national freedom of action but a statement of our willingness to co-operate. Such co-operation does not mean compromising our national traditions or institutions–far from it. It means not allowing sentiment to stand in the way of real interests. It is right to be hard-headed in our dealings with Europe, and that was our approach in the negotiations. At Maastricht, we ensured a safer Europe, and we reaffirmed the primacy of NATO. We set the framework of a stronger and more coherent European foreign policy, in which our national independence of action is assured. We strengthened the rule of law in the Community. We established more efficient and more effective institutions, with stronger arrangements for budgetary control.

    We gave the European Parliament a greater role in monitoring the Commission. We obliged the Community to respond more directly to the needs of the citizen. We equipped ourselves to fight international crime, terrorism and drug trafficking. We secured provisions that will be good for British industry, and a Community that will be open to the rest of the world.

    Our role consistently has been to ensure that the Community does not become self-regarding, inward-looking and over-regulatory. Brussels is a means to an end; it is not the end itself– [Interruption.] From their policies and comments, Opposition Members clearly feel differently. In their view, if Brussels says it, it must be right irrespective of the national interest.

    There is one critical agreement among the Twelve, which is outside the treaty but in the presidency conclusions, and which I believe is vital for the future of Europe. As we reach the end of the century, it becomes even clearer that the Community does not end with the Twelve. I do not accept– [Laughter.]

    Mr. Speaker : Order. These are not matters of hilarity, as many people outside would agree.

    The Prime Minister : I do not accept the conflict, which is often referred to, between deepening the Community and widening it. If the Community ignores what is happening beyond its boundaries and simply concentrates on internal development, it will not become deeper; it will just become shallower. We must broaden it and open its doors. It would be a tragedy if historians could look back and say that the Community had been sleepwalking through a year of revolutions elsewhere. That tragedy would be compounded if historians were to look back and say that, if only the Community had reached out to the fragile democracies of the east, disasters in those democracies could have been averted.

    At Maastricht, the Community committed itself to further enlargement. It did so at Britain’s initiative. That commitment will be seen as one of the most significant of the agreements to which we signed up last week. In six months’ time, Britain will hold the presidency of the Community. In that six months, we hope to start negotiations leading to membership of the Community for Austria and Sweden, and other European Free Trade Association countries. We shall start to pave the way for the eventual membership of the countries of eastern Europe. We shall put in place the last measures needed to complete the single market–a single market that will extend way beyond the borders of the Twelve, even before the new member states join.

    In the treaty of Rome, the free countries of Europe wove their own lifeline. We now have a responsibility to the other countries of Europe to throw that same lifeline to those countries now embarking on a perilous journey towards stability and democracy. If we were to fail in that endeavour, we should put at risk all the achievements of post-war Europe. The prize if we succeed in that endeavour is enormous.

    I see the main task of our presidency next year as being to ensure that the Community matches up to this, its greatest challenge and opportunity–the achievement of a Community open to all the democratic countries of Europe and reducing, perhaps even eliminating, the risk of conflict within the whole of our continent from one end to the other.

    That was the kind of Community that we fought for at Maastricht. That is the kind of Community that we wish to build. We can take pride in achieving our goals in this negotiation, and I commend the outcome to the House.

  • PMQT Written Answers – 16 December 1991

    Below is the text of the written answers relating to Prime Minister’s Question Time from 16th December 1991.


    PRIME MINISTER:

     

    Government Achievements

    Mr. Nicholls : To ask the Prime Minister if he will make a statement on the achievements of Her Majesty’s Government over the past year.

    The Prime Minister : Over the past year the Government have continued to pursue policies designed to remove barriers to choice and provide opportunities for all the people of this country, to lay a sound basis for future prosperity, to play a full part in Europe and to contribute to international peace and stability.

    Our firm financial policies, reaffirmed by our commitment to the exchange rate mechanism, have reduced inflation sharply and permitted interest rates to be substantially reduced. The conditions necessary for resumed growth have now been established.

    We have brought forward a Bill to provide for a new council tax, to replace the community charge in financing local government spending. The Budget helped businesses, large and small. We have taken initiatives to encourage innovation in industry and improve export performance. We have initiated joint action with industry to help identify and pursue export opportunities. Its first use in Kuwait in March 1991 has already led to orders worth £480 million for the United Kingdom. We have opened up telephone services to allow consumers to benefit from more competition.

    We have continued to promote wider share ownership. National Power, PowerGen and the non-nuclear electricity companies in England, Wales and Scotland, have been privatised, and a second tranche of shares in British Telecom sold to the public. One in four members of the adult population now owns shares.

    We have provided more effective training opportunities and are now offering a wider range of help than ever before to assist unemployed people in obtaining new jobs.

    We attach the highest priority to ensuring that everyone, whoever and wherever they are, will have access to high quality public services. The citizen’s charter White Paper announced a programme of radical initiatives to improve efficiency and standards in the public services and the privatised utilities. Measures to implement the charter feature strongly in our legislative programme for 1991-92, and we have published a number of charters relating to individual public services.

    In education we have taken action to raise standards and improve parental choice. The new School Teachers’ Review Body for England and Wales provides the means of improving teachers’ status. The development of the national curriculum will encourage concentration on basic skills. Our legislation to provide parents with more information about the performance of schools and to improve school inspection will give parents the basis on which to exercise the choices they are now able to make.

    We have also introduced legislation to widen access to an expanded higher education system, to abolish the distinction between universities and other higher education institutions, and to raise the status of vocational education and of further education colleges. Spending on science by the Department of Education and Science will top £1 billion for the first time next year and will rise in real terms for the remainder of the planning period.

    The Government’s health policies have led to an increase in the number of patients treated, a reduction in waiting times and lists, better quality of care and greater awareness of health promotion. The consultative document “The Health of the Nation”, setting out a comprehensive strategy for better health, has been warmly welcomed. Record levels of resources have been made available : spending on the NHS in 1992-93 will be nearly £36 billion, a 55 per cent. increase in real terms since 1978-79.

    The NHS reforms are already yielding tangible benefits for patients. Fifty seven NHS trusts have already been established and 99 more approved for start-up in 1992. The growing enthusiasm for trust status within the NHS means that many more will follow. GP fundholding is also proving a success. The patients charter has set out patients’ rights for the first time and the standards which will be set nationally and locally by the health service, including the first waiting time guarantees.

    We have maintained our determined efforts in the fight against crime. We have established a royal commission on criminal justice to examine the effectiveness of the criminal justice system in securing the convictions of those guilty of criminal offences and the acquittal of the innocent.

    In September we published “This Common Inheritance–The First Year Report” reporting progress on the whole range of environmental policies and concerns, and listing 400 separate measures taken during the year.

    We have continued to raise standards of food safety, ensure consumers are better informed, make environmental considerations central to agricultural policy, with significant extension of environmentally sensitive areas, as well as raising standards of animal welfare in Britain and taking the lead in setting higher standards throughout Europe.

    We have continued to invest record sums in the improvement of the United Kingdom’s transport infrastructure, and to encourage greater private sector involvement in the provision of transport facilities. We have introduced legislation to enable the structure of English local government to be reviewed so as better to reflect the identities and interests of local communities.

    We have continued to work for the regeneration of our cities. The city challenge initiative encourages local authorities to work with their private, voluntary sector and local community partners, to regenerate key areas of their cities.

    In the housing field, the new emphasis on quality of performance will further improve the renovation and management of council housing in England and Wales. We have introduced pilot rent-to-mortgage schemes, to extend tenants’ opportunities to buy their homes, and brought in new arrangements to ensure that tenants are actively consulted in local authorities housing plans. A special programme of hostels and permanent housing is reducing the numbers of people sleeping rough in central London.

    We have improved the position of children. We have increased child benefit, and pledged to increase it in line with inflation in the future. The Children Act, which came into effect this year, is a far reaching reform of children’s rights. The new Child Support Agency, for which legislation was passed earlier this year, will improve the assessment, collection and enforcement of child maintenance. We are continuing to enhance the opportunities for disabled people to play an independent part in society. In 1991 we enacted legislation providing for two new social security benefits for disabled people. Nineteen-ninety-one has seen momentous events internationally. The United Kingdom’s contribution to the liberation of Kuwait enhanced our standing in the world, strengthened the power of the United Nations and proved again the outstanding abilities of our armed forces. We responded rapidly to the Iraqi Government’s persecution of their own people, proposing the safe-haven initiative to provide an effective response to the plight of ordinary Iraqis. Building on the experience of this we launched the United Kingdom’s disaster relief initiative in August to provide the capacity for an immediate informed response to disasters round the world.

    The United Kingdom contributed significantly to the successful outcome of the Maastricht European Council. We have fully protected the United Kingdom’s right to take its own decision at the appropriate time on a move to the final stage of economic and monetary union. On political union, we have agreed a series of pragmatic reforms, many as a result of our proposals, which will make the Community more efficient, accountable and effective internationally. The new treaty on European union will also strengthen inter-governmental co-operation outside the framework of the Community in important areas like the fight against crime. We have continued to make steady progress towards completing the single market by the end of 1992 and to the conclusion of the GATT Uruguay round. The Government welcomed the determination confirmed at the Maastricht European Council to keep the Community open to our European neighbours who are eager for closer links and eventual membership. It was agreed that in 1992 negotiations would take place on applications from countries of the European Free Trade Area to join the Community, and, in due course, consideration would be given to the further possibility of expansion towards eastern Europe. I chaired the successful G7 economic summit in July and the historic meeting between summit leaders and President Gorbachev of the Soviet Union. The Government vigorously denounced the attempted coup in the Soviet Union and supported President Yeltsin’s courageous stand against it. I have co-ordinated the G7 programme of aid for the republics of the Soviet Union.

    The Government played an important part in concluding the treaty on conventional armed forces in Europe. We have continued to make a substantial contribution to the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation, participating fully in adapting the alliance, and developing a stronger European defence identity in the Western European Union. We have taken steps to restructure the armed forces to reflect the changed international situation.

    We have made a determined effort to promote democracy and good government in the developing countries, as a means to improving the prospects for development and the reduction of poverty. My announcement at the Commonwealth conference in Harare in October that the United Kingdom would implement the Trinidad terms debt reduction initiative for the poorest and most indebted countries was widely and warmly welcomed. If all official creditors followed this lead, the total debt of the countries concerned would be reduced by some $17 billion. At our instigation, the European Community and the Commonwealth have taken a more positive attitude to the welcome developments in South Africa, and sporting links have now been re- established with that country.

    These policies will ensure that the United Kingdom is well placed and fully prepared to meet the challenges of the 1990s.

     

    World Memorial Day

    Mr. Flynn : To ask the Prime Minister what contribution Her Majesty’s Government intends to make to World Memorial Day on 1 January 1992.

    The Prime Minister : The Government note the inauguration of World Memorial Day on 1 January 1992 by the Memorial Fund for Disaster Relief. Her Majesty’s Government will continue to do all they can to promote a safer and better world which is the stated object of the fund.

     

    Packaging

    Mr. Flynn : To ask the Prime Minister if he will make it his policy to require Her Majesty’s Stationery Office to use biodegradeable rice paper chips in place of styrofoam chips in packaging of parcels.

    The Prime Minister : This question falls within the scope of the policy announced in Cm 1263; arrangements have therefore been made for the controller and chief executive of HMSO to respond direct. Copies of the letter will be placed in the House Library and with the Public Information Office.

     

    Nuclear Weapons

    Mr. Michael Welsh : To ask the Prime Minister what evaluation has been made of which countries have the know-how for safely dismantling nuclear weapons.

    The Prime Minister : The five declared nuclear weapon states have to dismantle and reassemble their own nuclear weapons in order to maintain their stockpiles. The break-up of the Soviet Union may pose a range of problems, including the safe disposal of nuclear warheads. We are addressing these problems, in consultation with our allies and Soviet and Republic authorities.

     

    Junior Doctors

    Mr. Norris : To ask the Prime Minister if he has yet received the supplementary report from the Doctors and Dentists Review Body on pay for out-of-hours work for junior doctors.

    The Prime Minister : This report has been published today and copies are in the Vote Office. I am grateful to the review body for the work they have put into preparing it.

    The report recommends new rates of pay for out of hours working by hospital doctors and dentists in training, following the agreement reached earlier this year which introduced new working arrangements and set limits on contracted hours of duty for such staff. The recommended rates of pay are : —

    100 per cent. of the basic rate for full shift working

    70 per cent. of the basic rate for partial shift working 50 per cent. of the basic rate for on call rota working The recommendations, which arise from a major restructuring of working arrangements, are estimated to increase the paybill for hospital doctors and dentists in training by 5.8 per cent., given certain assumptions about the proportion of staff who will be contracted under each working pattern.

    The Government have decided to accept these recommendations and we shall seek to implement them as soon as possible in order to help to deliver our objective of reducing the hours of work of hospital doctors and dentists in training. The costs of the award will be met by health authorities and boards from the resources which we have made available to them this year and which we shall be making available to them in future years.

  • Mr Major’s Press Conference in Maastricht – 11 December 1991

    Below is the text of Mr Major’s press conference in Maastricht on Wednesday 11th December 1991.


    PRIME MINISTER:

    Thanks to all of you for staying so late for this press conference. We have had two and a half days of intense, detailed and occasionally tough negotiation. I am very happy with the outcome, I think it is a success both for Britain and for the whole of the Community.

    What we have agreed in the last couple of days is a treaty on European Union covering economic and monetary union and also political union. It marks a very significant step forward for Community cooperation, it settles the argument as to whether we should deepen or widen the Community, because we will now, as we have advocated for some time, do both of those things.

    Let me turn firstly to economic and monetary union. Our main objective in the economic and monetary union treaty was to secure a legally water-tight provision so that the United Kingdom can decide whether it wants to join a single currency or not and if it does, when it should join a single currency. We have achieved that in a legally binding protocol which forms an integral part of the treaty. We have secured also strict convergence conditions before any of the Community countries can move to Stage 3. We have retained absolute control over monetary policy in Stage 2 and of course whether we move to Stage 3 at all will require a separate decision by the British government and Parliament. Those were precisely the objectives we came here to achieve in this treaty.

    The text on political union preserves the separate pillared treaty structure which we have long argued for on defence, on foreign policy and on interior and justice cooperation. What that means is no Community competence in those areas and no jurisdiction by the European Court of Justice. That was a vital requirement for the United Kingdom and we have achieved it in full.

    For foreign policy we have preserved unanimity in decision-making, that also was vital for us. If there are to be any implementing decisions capable of majority voting then those decisions themselves will be first identified by unanimity, again an absolute requirement when we came here.

    On defence, the outcome is good for the Alliance and it is good for us. We have agreed that any new arrangements must be compatible with NATO, that defence issues should be dealt with by the Western European Union and not the Community and that the Western European Union will not be subordinated to the Union. A common defence policy will be a matter for the long term.

    We have also agreed a separate Western European Union declaration annex to the treaty which further reaffirms the independent status and decision making of the Western European Union, confirms that any new arrangements will be compatible with NATO and that the Western European Union will act in conformity with the Alliance. This is absolutely the outcome that we required.

    There has been a lot of concern, and not I think just in the United Kingdom, at creeping competence in the Community, the Commission using whatever articles are available to create an unjustified legal base for Community action. That has been particularly true and has caused us especial concern in the social area.

    Let me say, without equivocation, that we accept that there is a social dimension to the Community. Eighteen out of the 32 measures in the social action programme have been adopted, all of them, all of them, have been implemented by the United Kingdom. What we could not accept was further extensions of Community competence, not to deal with health and safety, but to do with employer, employee relations.

    I said before I came that I could not accept a text that would allow the Community to adopt measures that would drive a coach and horses through the trade union reforms we have won over the last decade which have, just to give you an illustration of their effectiveness, reduced the days lost through strikes from 29 million in 1979 to less than 2 million last year. As you will know, the social chapter has been dropped entirely.

    In the social area the treaty text is completely unchanged from the existing Treaty of Rome, there are no extensions of Community competence, no additional provisions for majority voting, there is no new treaty text on social issues. The other eleven member states, who have different backgrounds and different traditions in this area, will make their own separate arrangements for extra measures which will affect only their countries and for which they only will pay.

    One of the features of the negotiations has been the recognition that the Community should not just step in because it feels like it but only when there is a good reason for the Community to do so. And this is reflected in the treaty text, proposed by Britain and Germany, which implements the principle of subsidiarity, the principle in essence that the Community should only take action if and insofar as its objectives cannot be better achieved at national level. That was important to us and it has been agreed and sanctified in the treaty.

    We have reduced unanimity for major areas of Community spending and in particular research and development. Now that is an important gain. At the same time we have strengthened the Community so as to help our citizens. We have improved the effectiveness, efficiency and accountability of the Community.

    We have given the European Parliament a new power to investigate maladministration. We have created a European Community ombudsman. We have given European citizens a right to petition the European Parliament. All of those that I have just listed were British initiatives that are now in the treaty.

    We have taken measures to improve the implementation of Community measures, on which Britain’s record on implementation is one of the best. And in particular, the European Court of Justice in future will be able to impose fines on those governments which fail to carry out their legal obligations.

    I referred a few moments ago to deepening as well as widening. In its conclusions the Community, at our suggestion, has agreed that new membership negotiations can begin in 1992. The Commission will undertake a study of enlargement and will report back to the European Council in Lisbon next June. Enlargement will then be something for Britain to carry forward during our Presidency in the second half of next year. We look forward to doing that.

    The greatest challenge to the Community is not our internal development but how the Community as a whole matches up to the dramatic events taking place all around us, particularly to the East of Europe.

    We have agreed a number of statements on foreign policy issues as well. Let me draw your attention just to two of them. The first on the Soviet Union is designed to encourage peaceful and democratic development in the Soviet Union, it calls on the republics to respect the rights of minorities, to put into effect international agreements on arms control and nuclear non-proliferation, to control and secure their nuclear weapons and to honour their obligations in respect of the Soviet Union’s external debt.

    As many of you may know, I discussed developments in the Soviet Union with President Mitterrand and we have kept in close touch with the Americans over the last two days.

    The Political Directors of Britain, France and the United States will be meeting later this week and I hope the Foreign Ministers of the three countries will meet to discuss these developments, I hope, next week.

    The European Council has endorsed the demands which we, France and the United States have made to the Libyan government requiring them to abandon their support of terrorism and hand over the perpetrators of the Lockerbie bombing.

    So those are some of the things that have happened over the last couple of days. Tonight’s agreement of course was not just achieve in two days, it reflects a great deal of work over many months. It reflects enormous credit on Ruud Lubbers and the Dutch Presidency who have been unfailingly courteous and helpful throughout the lead-up to the negotiations and during the negotiations.

    And tough though the negotiations have sometimes been, there has been a genuine spirit of give and take amongst the Member States, I believe that the agreement that we have agreed this evening fully reflects Britain’s interests on economic and monetary union, foreign policy, defence and the future development of the Community. I shall have no hesitation in recommending it to Parliament and to the British people.

    And finally, I told you when I came here that the term federal vocation would have gone by Tuesday night – it has.

     

    QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS:

    QUESTION (John Sergeant):

    Could you confirm that the eleven countries who have agreed the protocol on the social chapter will not be able to act within the structures of the European Community and that any policies they agree together will not become part of Community law?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    That is correct. They will be able to use the Commission, they will be able to do that, it will be specially funded, it will be separately funded and it will not become Community law as far as the United Kingdom is concerned.

    QUESTION (Keith Rockwell, Journal of Commerce):

    You mentioned that you thought that the social aspects of this treaty would result in damage to the competitiveness of Europe, I wonder if you think that the outcome of this treaty or this opting out or however we are going to phrase it here, may give Britain a let up on its competitors in terms of foreign investment and trade in the future?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    It certainly will do us no harm. One of the prominent European figures indicated some time ago that a country that did not have these obligations would act as a magnet to investment. I do not know whether that is true or not. I can certainly say that in the United Kingdom in recent years we have had the fastest job growth since the war, 75 percent increase in the number of self-employed since 1979, 33 percent rise in the number of registered businesses.

    These were developments over the last decade that I was simply not prepared to put at risk and I believe that the provisions that were there in the social chapter, for reasons that I spelt out to our Community partners, would have damaged that competitiveness and would have damaged that job creation. And it was for that reason, not only anti-communautaire spirit, that I decided that those were provisions that it was not in Britain’s interests to sign up to. We have certainly retained our competitiveness, I look forward to welcoming a great deal more of inward investment and to sustaining our competitiveness in the short and medium term.

    QUESTION (John Palmer, Guardian):

    As you have told us, this European Summit has embarked upon an accelerated timetable in many ways for full European Union, Britain reserves the right to remain outside. Eleven countries, we have heard tonight, have announced their intention, using the European Commission and the European Parliament and with the British Ministers abstaining in the Council of Ministers, to press ahead with social legislation. Is it the position that we have now got a two-speed Europe and you have put Britain embedded down in the slow lane?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    Absolutely not. Let me take the first point which I assume was aimed at economic and monetary union. You said that we have reserved the right not to go in, but that is only half the story, John, we have also reserved the right to go in if we think it is right of the British economy at that stage, it is not a one-way option. Everybody else seems to have decided now, irrespective of the circumstances at a later stage, irrespective of their own economic development and what the world looks like, that they wish to commit themselves to that providing the convergence conditions are met.

    We have a two-way option. If we think it is right, we can go in. If we think it is wrong, we can stay out. So we have surrendered nothing and we have lost nothing, the option is there for us to go in or not to go in as we choose.

    Upon the second point about the social charter. The social charter is of course a misnomer because it really relates essentially to employment matters and what is important is that you actually look at what is proposed in that social charter and see what it actually means and the extent to which it would effect, badly in my judgment, upon British practices and British competitiveness.

    Some people say: “But the social charter, it must be good for British workers.” I can only say to you, John, that costing British workers jobs is not good for British workers and that is why we decided not to go in it.

    QUESTION:

    If I could look at the issue of foreign policy, what is the current British stance on asylum seekers and refugee seekers that are going to potentially be coming in from Eastern Europe given the current instability in the Ukraine and Belorussia and Russia as well? What is your stance and how is Britain prepared to deal with the potential influx of asylum seekers and refugees?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    This has been discussed over recent weeks, not just of course in the discussions over the last couple of days, but has also been discussed more extensively amongst the Foreign Ministers. Now by good fortune I have the Foreign Secretary with me, so he will respond to you.

    FOREIGN SECRETARY:

    You will see the declaration that was put out today about the Soviet Union, that gives the general background as to how we analyse the position there. But as regards the asylum seekers and refugees, of course there is a problem right across Europe and I think we are all agreed that we hold strictly to the UN definition of a refugee, asylum-seeker, as someone who has a well founded fear of individual persecution. Those people we accept, all the countries of Europe accept, as is our duty under international law. But what we do not accept of course is the right of people to come to Europe, whether it is Britain or Germany or wherever, simply in order to better their economic position and we have legislation going through the British Parliament at the present time to deal with that.

    So one of the things that has been agreed here at Maastricht is that the countries of Europe should work together more intensely on this and similar problems, not under the jurisdiction of the Community, not with the competence of the Community, but between governments. And that work I think is going to be increasingly important as the months pass.

    QUESTION (Andrew Marr, Economist):

    Mr Major, you have said that there has been a lot of give and take in these negotiations and you very helpfully listed for us all those areas where you have taken. Could you list for us now those areas where you have given?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    I am sure lots of other people will do that for you, Andrew. But let me set out some of them. There are some areas of increased competence, a good deal of it by decisions by unanimity rather than qualified majority vote and there has been an extension of a negative assent procedure.

    We have also given in terms of what is in the treaty. Many of those individual matters that give greater powers to the European Parliament, and I listed them earlier in my opening remarks, were in fact British initiatives. I think what we have also done in some areas is to ensure that decisions are taken which are good for the Community, not just for the United Kingdom but for the Community as a whole. So I think we have given a great deal to these treaties and I believe dispassionate observers would acknowledge that,

    QUESTION (Robin Oakley, The Times):

    There have been indications that some national parliaments might not ratify the deal reached tonight if it is not agreed by the European Parliament and also there is some expectation that the European Parliament might not like the deal. If it is not ratified by various national parliaments and your 11 partners come hack to you and say they need a new deal, a new arrangement on the social chapter, would you be willing to start talking about it again?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    I honestly do not think that problem will arise. The European Parliament will accept this deal, I have no doubt about it. I dare say in some areas the European Parliament would have liked the deal to have gone further, that is undoubtedly the case. There is no-one, no national government that sat round that table that got everything it wanted, all of them have conceded something, all of them will have some things in the treaty that they would have preferred not to have had. They have made the decision as national governments to endorse the treaty, the European Parliament finds itself in the same place, it has got a great deal that it will like, it has not got some things that it wanted, but do not myself believe that it will fail to ratify the treaty.

    QUESTION (David Marsh, FT):

    Two questions about monetary union. What is the likelihood that a sufficiently large number of countries will actually reach the very tough convergence criteria to make monetary union a meaningful possibility either in 1996 or in 1999? And at what stage will you be moving to make the Bank of England independent to at least prepare yourself for the possibility of Britain opting in?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    On the first point, it is very speculative as to when people will actually achieve that state of convergence. The convergence conditions that people have to meet are quite tough and yet it is absolutely essential that those convergence conditions are there, otherwise there would be an economic catastrophe for Europe. I cannot make a judgment as to how rapidly those countries will get to convergence, it is certainly possible that they will not have achieved it by 1996/97, which is why the French for example, who are very enthusiastic about it, have produced the proposition of looking at it again two years later. Whether a sufficient number, a critical mass, will have reached it then is still a moot point. So that is speculative and I cannot make a judgment about that.

    On your second point, the Bank of England would become independent if we went into Stage 3 and when we went into Stage 3,

    QUESTION (Radio CB international):

    How can it be that in this year there is carrying on a bloody civil war in Europe, people are being killed, Dubrovnik which happens to be a favourite town of mine is being destroyed, and there sit the twelve Heads of government of the European Community and nothing is being done and can anything be done and what can be done to stop it after the 83rd ceasefire?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    I do not think anyone has done more than the Foreign Secretary and his counterparts in Europe to try and bring it to an end. If the combatants in Yugoslavia continue fighting it is not necessarily possible for other people to stop them. But there is a wider answer to your question. Thirty years ago people might well have said: “How can you stop the Western European nations fighting against one another?” Today, such a question in Western Europe would be ludicrous, the integration and the inter-relationship between the European Community has effectively stopped conflict in Western Europe for good. One of the reasons that the decisions on enlargement are so important is that perhaps not in my political lifetime but beyond that, we can look forward to a Community that stretches right the way across the whole of Europe and that will prevent the prospects of conflict right the way across the whole of Europe. We have started a trail today that might provide the only comprehensive answer to your question in due course.

    QUESTION:

    Are you an optimist for the Balkans?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    It is not for me to declare whether I am an optimist or a pessimist.

  • Mr Major’s Commons Statement on the 1991 European Council Meeting at Maastricht – 11 December 1991

    Below is Mr Major’s statement made in the House of Commons on 11th December 1991 on the European Council held at Maastricht.


    The Prime Minister (Mr. John Major): With permission, Mr. Speaker, I should like to make a statement on the European Council in Maastricht which I attended with my right hon. Friends the Foreign Secretary and the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

    The European Council has reached agreement on a treaty on European union. The relevant texts have been deposited along with the presidency conclusions. The House will be invited to debate the outcome next week.

    Let me set out the main provisions of the agreements we reached. The treaty covers economic and monetary union and political union. It follows the structure for which the United Kingdom has consistently argued.

    The treaty creates a new legal framework for co-operation between member states in foreign and security policy and in the fight against international crime. That co-operation will take place on an intergovernmental basis outside the treaty of Rome. That means that the Commission will not have the sole right of initiative and the European Court will have no jurisdiction.

    On defence, we have agreed a framework for co-operation in which the primacy of the Atlantic alliance has been confirmed and the role of the Western European Union has been enhanced.

    As the House knows, there was strong pressure over many months for all aspects of co-operation to come within European Community competence. That was not acceptable to this country. Instead, an alternative route to European co-operation has been opened up. I believe that this will be seen as an increasingly significant development as the Community opens its doors to new members, and more flexible structures are required.

    I turn now to the main features of the text. The treaty provides for the possibility that member states will wish to adopt a single currency later this decade, but they can do so only if they meet strict convergence conditions–conditions for which the British Government have pressed from the outset. These cover inflation, budget deficits, exchange rate stability and long-term interest rates.

    A single currency may come into being in 1997, but only if a minimum of seven countries meet the convergence conditions, and eight of the Twelve vote in favour. The treaty lays down that a single currency will come into being by 1999, but only if those convergence conditions are met and only for those countries which meet them. It is therefore highly uncertain when such a currency will be created and which countries it will cover.

    In the House on 20 November, I said that there must be a provision giving the United Kingdom the right to decide for ourselves whether or not to move to stage 3. That requirement has been secured. It is set out in a legally binding protocol which forms an integral part of the treaty. The protocol was drafted by the United Kingdom and fully protects the position of this House. The effect of the protocol is as follows. We have exactly the same option to join a single currency at the same time as other member states if we wish. We shall be involved in all the decisions. But, unlike other Governments, we have not bound ourselves to join regardless of whether it makes economic or political sense.

    The treaty text on political union provides for enhanced intergovernmental co-operation on foreign and security policy, on defence policy and in the fight against terrorism, drug trafficking and other crimes.

    International crime knows no frontiers. Terrorists and other criminals must not be allowed to escape justice or to retire abroad with the proceeds of their crime. This text gives us a new basis for co-operation with our partners in bringing these criminals to justice.

    The text provides for joint action in foreign policy, building on what was already agreed in the Single European Act. But, as I told the House on 20 November, if Britain needs to act on its own, it must be free to do so. The treaty meets that requirement. Joint action can take place only if we agree. Where there is no joint action, each member state is entirely free to act on its own. If, after joint action has been agreed, a member state needs to take its own measures to meet changed circumstances, it may do so.

    There was pressure from other member states to take foreign policy decisions by majority voting. I was not prepared to agree that Britain could be outvoted on any substantive issue of foreign policy. Some of our partners also sought to draw a distinction between decisions of principle, where unanimity would apply, and implementing decisions which could be subject to majority voting. No one was able to explain how that distinction would work. I told the European Council that, if such occasions did arise, we should consider the case for majority voting on its merits. The treaty reflects our view. It provides that the Council may, but only by unanimity, designate certain decisions to be taken by qualified majority voting. But we cannot be forced to subject our foreign policy to the will of other member states. We have, in fact, preserved unanimity for all decisions where we decide that we need it.

    We are agreed that Europe must do more for its own defence. We should build up the Western European Union as the defence pillar of the European union, but the treaty embodies the view set out in the Anglo-Italian proposal two months ago, and endorsed at last month’s summit of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation that whatever we do at European level must be compatible with NATO. The WEU must in no way be subordinate to the European Council. It is not. We have avoided the danger of setting up defence structures which would compete with NATO. We have created a framework in which Europe can develop its defence role in a way which complements the American presence in Europe and does not put it at risk.

    In these negotiations, we put forward a series of proposals designed to be of direct benefit to the European citizen. All of them were accepted. The Community has agreed to increase the accountability of European Community institutions; to strengthen the European Parliament’s financial control over the Commission; to allow the European Parliament to investigate maladministration and to appoint a Community ombudsman accessible to all Community citizens; to build up the role of the Court of Auditors, which becomes an institution of the Community; and to ensure compliance with Community obligations by giving the European Court of Justice power to impose fines on Governments who sign directives but subsequently do not implement them.

    We wanted–and secured–a sensible enhancement of the role of the European Parliament. We did not accept the proposal made by other member states for a power of co-decision between the Parliament and the Council. As I told the House on 20 November, the Council of Ministers must be the body that ultimately determines the Community’s laws and policies.

    I also said then that we were prepared to consider some blocking power for the European Parliament. That has now been agreed. The treaty sets up, in a limited number of areas, a conciliation procedure where there is disagreement between the Council and Parliament. In the last analysis, the Parliament would be able to block a decision in those areas, but only if an absolute majority of its members turned out to vote the proposal down.

    The House has been rightly concerned at the creeping extension of Community competence over the last few years. The Commission has often brought forward proposals using a dubious legal base, and the Council has found it difficult to halt that practice in the European Court. We have taken significant steps to deal with that problem. First, the structure of the treaty puts the issues of foreign and security policy, interior and justice matters and defence policy beyond the reach of the Commission and the European Court. Secondly, the treaty itself embodies the vital principle of “subsidiarity”, making it clear that the Community should only be involved in decisions which cannot more effectively be taken at national level. Thirdly, in some areas–notably health protection, educational exchanges, vocational training and culture–we have defined Community competence clearly for the first time. Fourthly, there will be no extension of Community competence in employer-employee relations–the so-called social area. We have a high standard of social protection in this country. Our national health service, free at the point of use, is the envy of many in Europe, but we recognise the Community’s social dimension. Also–unlike some of our European partners–we have implemented that dimension too ; 19 out of the 33 measures in the social action programme have been agreed. But there is no reason for the Community to get involved in employment legislation, which must be for each country to decide for itself.
    Over the past 12 years, we have transformed labour relations. In 1979, 29 million working days were lost in strikes. Last year the figure was less than 2 million. I was not prepared to see that record put in jeopardy. Nor was I prepared to risk Britain’s competitive position as the European magnet for inward investment. I was not prepared to put British jobs on the line. [Interruption.]

    Mr. Speaker : Order. A great many people outside the House are interested in what the Prime Minister has to say.

    The Prime Minister : Many of our partners have a wholly different tradition of employment practice which is reflected in the separate arrangements which they have agreed, which will affect only their countries and for which only they will pay. But even among these member states there are many who fear the effect of Community measures on their jobs and their ability to compete. Our arguments are based not only on our national interest but on the risks we perceive to the competitive position of the Community as a whole. This week’s events in the Soviet Union were a salutary reminder that reform in the Community is not an end in itself. The Community’s primary task must be to extend its own advantages of democracy, stability and prosperity to eastern Europe. At British initiative, we committed ourselves at Maastricht to the further enlargement of the Community, starting with the EFTA countries. When they and, in due course, the new democracies of eastern Europe are ready to join the Community, we shall be ready to welcome them. With this in mind, the Commission will report on enlargement to next June’s European Council in Lisbon. Thereafter, it will be for the British presidency to carry that work forward. I look forward to doing so.

    We agreed a number of statements on foreign policy issues. I will single out two of them. On the Soviet Union, the European Council calls on the republics to respect the rights of minorities, to implement international agreements on arms control and nuclear non-proliferation, to control and secure their nuclear weapons, and to honour their obligations in respect of the Soviet Union’s external debt.

    The European Council has endorsed the demands which we, France and the United States have made to the Libyan Government requiring them to abandon their support of terrorism and to hand over the alleged perpetrators of the Lockerbie bombing.

    The founders of the Community knew that they could not create a viable organisation if they established goals that could never be achieved. In talking about European union, we are talking about concepts that have to be cast in the reality of national legislation and everyday life.

    The Single European Act started as a grandiose design and ended up as a workmanlike blueprint for a free market. Those treaties have followed the same course.

    Our role has been to put forward practical suggestions–and sometimes to rein in the larger ambitions of our partners. Where we believed their ideas would not work, we have put forward our own alternatives.

    Those can be found throughout this treaty. As with all international negotiations, there has been give and take between all 12 member states. But the process was one in which Britain has played a leading role, and the result is one in which we can clearly see the imprint of our views.
    This is a treaty which safeguards and advances our national interests. It advances the interests of Europe as a whole. It opens up new ways of co-operating in Europe. It clarifies and contains the powers of the Commission. It will allow the Community to develop in depth. It reaches out to other Europeans–the new democracies who want to share the benefits we already enjoy. It is a good agreement for Europe, and a good agreement for the United Kingdom. I commend it to the House.

  • Mr Major’s Doorstep Interview in Maastricht – 10 December 1991

    Below is Mr Major’s doorstep interview in Maastricht on Tuesday 10th December 1991.


    QUESTION:

    Prime Minister, what progress were you able to make at the dinner last night with your colleagues?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    We have made some good progress in a number of areas, some very good progress indeed in some areas, but there is still a long way to go before there will be an agreement.

    QUESTION:

    Are you prepared to make some concessions on the social issues to gain what you want on the economic treaty?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    There are a whole series of things yet to be determined and they will be determined in the negotiating session and not outside it.

    QUESTION:

    Are you confident that today you will get a settlement?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    It is not a question of me getting a settlement, it is a question of Europe getting a settlement, it is a question of an agreement that everybody in Europe can subscribe to. We are still some way short of that, how will it go today we will have to wait and see.

  • PMQT – 10 December 1991

    Below is the text of Prime Minister’s Question Time from 10th December 1991. Mr MacGregor responded on behalf of John Major.


    PRIME MINISTER

     

    Engagements

    Q1. Mr. Ward : To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 10 December.

    The Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Mr. John MacGregor) : I have been asked to reply. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister is attending the European Council in Maastricht.

    Mr. Ward : I am sure that my right hon. Friend will join all his right hon. and hon. Friends in wishing the Prime Minister well in his important negotiations.

    Has my right hon. Friend seen a recent public opinion poll which says that 66 per cent. of the people asked believed that taxes under the Labour party would be increased?– [Interruption.]

    Mr. Speaker : Order. I know, but the hon. Gentleman must relate his question to the Government’s responsibilities.

    Mr. Ward : Does my right hon. Friend agree that, in contrast, the Government have been responsible and does he further agree that the policies of the Opposition seem to be– [Interruption.]

    Mr. Speaker : Order. It is not very good, you see, on Government responsibility and this takes up a lot of time. The hon. Gentleman must bring his question to a conclusion, please.

    Mr. Ward : Will my right hon. Friend further agree that the only hope of keeping low taxation is to return the Conservative party to Government?

    Mr. MacGregor : I am sure that not only hon. Members on this side of the House but the majority of people in this country wish my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister and my other right hon. Friends well in their very important negotiations in Maastricht.

    As for my hon. Friend’s other question, I confirm that it is as a result of this Government’s economic policies and the growth achieved over the years that we have secured not only higher public spending but a substantial reduction in direct taxes. I saw the report to which my hon. Friend referred and I am not at all surprised that the Opposition tried to shout him down, for the simple fact is that the report revealed that the majority of people in this country recognise that the Labour party has now promised to increase spending on just about everything under the sun, which would mean higher borrowing, higher inflation and much higher taxes.

    Mr. Kinnock : The British people will also note that all that came from the spokesman for the Government who have raised the tax burden to its highest level in British history.

    The right hon. Gentleman will be aware that the draft of the treaty at Maastricht today provides for the improvement of employees’ working conditions, for legal protection and for entitlement to consultation and to information. When other Community Governments are prepared– [Interruption.]

    Mr. Dickens rose–

    Mr. Speaker : Order. I do not need any help from the hon. Member.

    Mr. Kinnock : When other Community Governments are prepared to extend those rights to their people, is not it completely wrong for the British Government to refuse to do the same for the British people?

    Mr. MacGregor : I am not surprised that the right hon. Gentleman avoided the first point, because the report to which my hon. Friend the Member for Poole (Mr. Ward) referred produced the following answer within the Labour party :

    “Some argue it will highlight one of our weaker points”.

    It certainly does. On Maastricht, we are opposed to a number of the points in the social charter because in practice it would damage employment and prosperity. That is why my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has been arguing against the social text. It will put a huge burden on industry and will cost jobs. Another point is that it offends the important principle of subsidiarity. I agree with the point made by the right hon. Member for Yeovil (Mr. Ashdown) in today’s edition of The Guardian. He said :

    “It provides for an expansion of treaty-based Community competence into areas of wage bargaining and social security that should rightly remain with member states”.

    That is right and that is why we oppose so many elements in the social charter.

    Mr. Kinnock : Is the right hon. Gentleman trying to tell us that other Community Governments, many with economies more successful than ours, do not care about employment, about costs and about competitiveness? Of course they do. Why is it that those countries can accept basic, decent minimum standards for their people whereas this Government will not accept them for the British people?

    Mr. MacGregor : In trade union legislation and in other ways, there are different practices in different countries. The plain fact is that some elements of the social charter would run the risk–indeed, would make it a real possibility–of this country returning to some of the trade union practices that did so much damage during the 1970s. What is more, my right hon. Friend’s position in Maastricht has the support of the Confederation of British Industry and of the majority of British industry which recognises the increasing burdens that the charter could impose on it, which would damage our competitiveness in relation to countries outside the Community which are not so burdened.

    Mr. Kinnock : When it is obvious that the other 11 Governments are prepared to accept the draft before them at Maastricht today and that this Government are not, the Government are confessing to a unique combination of political prejudice and economic weakness which marks them out from the rest of the Community and which marks Britain down in the Community.

    Mr. MacGregor : There is no question of marking Britain down. My right hon. Friend is right to draw attention to the dangers which lie within the social charter of making European industry uncompetitive in relation to Japanese industry and to others. It is no wonder that the right hon. Gentleman wants to support elements of the social charter being imposed here. That would result in a return to the period when 29 million days were lost to strikes and when substantial burdens were imposed on British industry. That is why we oppose the proposals.

     

    Q2. Mr. Stevens : To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 10 December.

    Mr. MacGregor : I have been asked to reply.

    I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. Stevens : Will my right hon. Friend today find time to join my right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State for Education and Science in condemning Labour and Liberal Democrat councils, such as Nottingham, Derbyshire and Richmond, which have blocked the distribution of the parents charter? Does not that hostility to the charter give the lie to the Opposition parties’ request for freedom of information?

    Mr. MacGregor : I agree with my hon. Friend and I condemn those authorities. He is right to draw attention to the hypocrisy of those local authorities, as he has described it. They have advised schools not to make copies available to parents. It goes further than that. The Government’s education policies in schools are designed entirely to raise standards, to increase choice and to improve information to parents. The parents charter is an important part of that and I am glad that most schools have ignored the attitudes of those Labour authorities.

    Mr. Blunkett : In 1909, Winston Churchill, talking about workers’ rights, said that there were necessary laws to be passed to ensure that the bad employer was not undercut by the very worst. Is not that why other Governments and employers across Europe understand well today that the Government are reneging on that and wish this country to undercut others by treating workers in the worst way possible?

    Mr. MacGregor : This Government have implemented all 18 of the social measures that have so far been agreed under the social charter, which is more than can be said of a lot of our Community partners. We do implement such measures where we believe that it is right to do so, but we have opposed the working time directive, for example, because it could have added an extra £5 billion to British industry’s costs. We believe that that would destroy jobs and make industry uncompetitive. We have been successful in going in the opposite direction–in increasing the number of jobs and in making British industry more competitive in the past 10 years.

     

    Q3. Mr. Gill : To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 10 December.

    Mr. MacGregor : I have been asked to reply.

    I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave a few moments ago.

    Mr. Gill : Does my right hon. Friend accept that the majority of my constituents believe that what they voted for in the referendum on Europe was a single market, not a single currency? Does he further accept that the failure of the common agricultural policy, coupled with doubts about the realisation of the level playing field for goods and services by the end of next year, mean that this is a singularly inappropriate time to extend the competence of the European Community? Does– [Interruption.]

    Mr. Speaker : Order. That is enough.

    Mr. Gill : Would my right hon. Friend–

    Hon. Members : Sit down.

    Mr. Speaker : Order.

    Mr. Gill : Does my right hon. Friend agree– [Interruption.]

    Mr. Speaker : Order. In fairness to everyone else, the hon. Gentleman should sit down.

    Mr. Gill : Does my right hon. Friend agree– [Interruption.]

    Mr. Speaker : Order. This is very unfair to other hon. Members.

    Mr. MacGregor : I am afraid that I could not catch the last part of my hon. Friend’s question, but I agree with him about the importance that he attaches to the single market. That, of course, is why the United Kingdom Government have been in the lead in pressing for the completion of the single market and that is why, in the current negotiations, we are arguing for steps to strengthen the observance of Community law to ensure that a level playing field is included in the single market.

    As to the steps that are now being taken at Maastricht on the development of the Community, my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has made it clear that if he gets an agreement that is right for Britain and for Europe, he will sign, but if he cannot, he will not.

     

    Q4. Miss Lestor : To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 10 December.

    Mr. MacGregor : I have been asked to reply.

    I refer the hon. Lady to the reply that I gave a few moments ago.

    Miss Lestor : Will the right hon. Gentleman confirm that Britain was one of the countries that ruled against the inclusion of the role of overseas development and co-operation as part of the discussions at Maastricht? Was that because it could mean that Britain would have to increase the amount that we spend on overseas aid and development to match the contributions of other European countries?

    Mr. MacGregor : I cannot comment on details of the negotiations– [Hon. Members :– “Oh!”]–because I do not know the details of what is actually happening today, but it is quite clear that we have been arguing that matters affecting foreign policy should continue to be decided under the auspices of intergovernmental co-operation. On overseas aid, the hon. Lady knows that this year we have yet again increased the amount of money that is spent on that.

     

    Q5. Mr. Butterfill : To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 10 December.

    Mr. MacGregor : I have been asked to reply.

    I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave a few moments ago.

    Mr. Butterfill : Will my right hon. Friend join me in congratulating the courageous efforts of the European Community observers in Croatia? Does he share my concern that they have found almost universally that the aggression has been initiated by Serbia? Does he agree that it is desirable that today’s events in Maastricht might lead to future improved co-operation on such matters by the European Community which may, in the end, lead to a reduction in the genocide in that country?

    Mr. MacGregor : Like my hon. Friend, I pay tribute to the efforts of Lord Carrington and others within the Community who have been endeavouring to obtain a ceasefire, and to the efforts made by Mr. Cyrus Vance. My hon. Friend rightly draws attention to the benefits of Community co-operation. We have already seen much of that in the lead that has been given by the Community, which has taken special steps to limit the damage and the fighting to enable the parties to come together. Britain has played a large part in that. We have set up a peace conference, sent in monitors and have established ceasefires. I very much hope that that co-operation and the Community’s continued efforts will produce the results that my hon. Friend seeks.

     

    Q6. Mr. Nigel Griffiths : To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 10 December.

    Mr. MacGregor : I have been asked to reply.

    I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

    Mr. Griffiths : Does the right hon. Gentleman think it right that under the Tory council tax every millionaire who lives alone will be entitled to a 25 per cent. rebate while the majority of pensioner couples with modest savings or occupational pensions will have to pay the full council tax? Is this the classless society but only open to millionaires?

    Mr. MacGregor : The council tax will produce about 40 per cent. of total local authority revenue and people on higher incomes will contribute to local authority expenditure much more through the taxes that they pay.

    Mr. Brazier : Will my right hon. Friend join me in congratulating the Prime Minister on his initiative yesterday with President Mitterrand on the Soviet Union? Does he agree that it is a sign of considerable leadership that, right in the teeth of the complexity of the negotiations at Maastricht, the Prime Minister should have recognised that the awesome events on the other side of Europe may have an even larger say in the history of Europe?

    Mr. MacGregor : I agree with my hon. Friend. Indeed, I pay tribute to all the work that my right hon. Friend has done throughout the year with regard to events in eastern Europe and the Soviet Union. Yesterday he drew attention to the three matters of concern to which I have no doubt that he will turn, in co-operation with other countries who are equally concerned, as soon as the Maastricht negotiations are complete.

  • Mr Major’s Doorstep Interview in Maastricht – 9 December 1991

    Below is Mr Major’s doorstep interview in Maastricht on Monday 9th December 1991.


    QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS:

    MICHAEL BRUNSON (ITV):

    Can I just ask you about the Soviet Union? Do you share Mr. Baker’s fears that it could be like Yugoslavia only worse?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    I think it is too early to be quite clear what is happening there. Clearly, we are concerned about what has happened and we have been in touch with the United States overnight and shall be having a meeting about the matter with President Mitterrand this morning.

    We have also decided to send our Political Director to the Soviet Union and he will go later this week.

    MICHAEL BRUNSON:

    Do you fear that there is a real chance of it splitting apart with violence?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    There is certainly that possibility. We have several principal concerns, of course. Firstly, the control of nuclear weapons – that is critical; secondly, the position of human rights within the Soviet Union – that is equally important; and thirdly, of course, the position about the Soviet Union sovereign debt. All those are matters that need to be determined and need to be determined quickly.

    MICHAEL BRUNSON:

    Can I just ask you about your meeting with Mr. Lubbers last night? Did you manage to narrow any of the differences?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    There are many differences and it is a mistake to assume that all the differences and difficulties here are differences and difficulties between the United Kingdom and our colleagues in Europe – that is not the case. There are very many countries that have particular difficulties with substantial parts of one or other of the treaties.

    We were substantially discussing last night how the meetings will be run, what the mechanism will be and what the decision-making process ultimately will be like.

    MICHAEL BRUNSON:

    What about M. Delors, remarks yesterday about us being a country that says “No, no, no!”?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    This is a meeting of Heads of Government to determine what goes in the new treaties. I am not going to comment very much about the Commission.

    JAMES NAUGHTIE (BBC):

    Prime Minister, do you think you’ll get an opt-out clause in the single currency that will be acceptable?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    We have made it absolutely clear throughout the whole of these discussions that there is no possibility whatsoever of the United Kingdom committing itself now either to whether or when it will enter into a single currency. Without such an agreement, there will be no agreement to the Economic and Monetary Union treaty so there must be the certainty not of an opt-out but of an opt-in clause – it has always inaccurately called an “opt-out clause”. How that will be determined, we shall discover in the negotiations in the next two days.

    MICHAEL BRUNSON:

    Do you see any chance of movement or the possibility of moving towards movement on the Social Chapter?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    The Social Chapter is not an attractive preposition in any way; it would impose huge costs on British industry and commerce; it is very strongly opposed by British industry and commerce; it would cost jobs; it would cost competitiveness.

    The gainer from the Social Charter will not be the workers of Europe. The gainer from the Social Charter will be the Japanese and the Americans who will gain competitiveness at the expense of Europe. I shall put those arguments to our colleagues.

  • PMQT Written Answers – 5 December 1991

    Below is the text of the written answers relating to Prime Minister’s Question Time from 5th December 1991.


    PRIME MINISTER:

     

    Dalai Lama

    Mr. Foulkes : To ask the Prime Minister what subjects were discussed at his meeting with the Dalai Lama; what was the outcome of the discussions; and if he will make a statement.

    The Prime Minister : I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave to the hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr. Wallace) on 3 December at column 141.

     

    Engagements

    Mr. Harry Greenway : To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 5 December.

    The Prime Minister : This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet and had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House, I shall be having further meetings later today.

     

    Maastricht Conference

    Mr. Favell : To ask the Prime Minister what consideration he has given to his policies on the United Kingdom’s position in the European Community in the event of the United Kingdom not signing any treaty agreed upon at Maastricht by other European Community member states.

    The Prime Minister : The Government’s objective is to reach an agreement at Maastricht on terms that I can commend to the House. Amendment of the treaty of Rome requires the approval of all the member states and all Twelve would have to consider the implications if no agreement were reached at Maastricht.

    Mr. Allen : To ask the Prime Minister what is Her Majesty’s Government’s policy on extending the level of involvement of Parliament in the decision-making process running up to Maastricht.

    The Prime Minister : Parliament has been kept fully informed of the progress in the intergovernmental conferences. A statement is made following every ministerial session. Parliament has also had the fullest possible opportunity to debate all the issues for discussion at Maastricht. Any agreement reached at Maastricht will be put to the House for approval.

     

    Civil Servants

    Mr. Allen : To ask the Prime Minister, (1) if he will include in the definition of civil servants he is prepared to authorise to meet Opposition parties, six months prior to an election, the chief executives and senior officers of the agencies;

    (2) if he will list the grades of civil servant which he will agree to authorise to consult Opposition parties on policy matters six months prior to an election.

    The Prime Minister : I do not intend to specify grades or positions.

    Mr. Allen : To ask the Prime Minister, further to his reply of 27 November, Official Report, column 527, on Opposition parties consulting civil servants on organisational changes resulting from Opposition policies, if he is now prepared to supply information on the current organisation of Departments.

    The Prime Minister : Such information is already in the public domain.

    Mr. Allen : To ask the Prime Minister on what basis Her Majesty’s Government’s Cabinet Secretary met the shadow Cabinet last week; and if he will make a statement.

    The Prime Minister : The meeting was held in confidence and with my authority to provide a briefing on civil service matters.

    Mr. Allen : To ask the Prime Minister what are the conventions and guidance whereby civil service departments brief and induct Ministers on their first day in office.

    The Prime Minister : There are no specific conventions or guidance.

    Mr. Allen : To ask the Prime Minister if, pursuant to his answer of 27 November, Official Report, column 527-28, to the right hon. Member for Manchester, Wythenshawe (Mr. Morris), he will give the dates prior to the 1983 and 1987 general elections when Opposition parties were authorised to have contacts with senior civil servants; when the convention on Opposition parties consulting the civil service six months prior to an election was last used; and if he will make a statement on the procedure.

    The Prime Minister : As these elections were called more than six months before the five-year term of Parliament would have expired, no question of authorisation before the election period arose. A statement on the procedure was made to the House by the then Prime Minister on 21 April 1970. The statement referred to meetings in July 1964. The convention has been operated only in or immediately before subsequent election periods.

     

    Operation Scotcheck

    Mr. McLeish : To ask the Prime Minister if he will make a statement on Operation Scotcheck on 13 November; and if he will give details of the involvement of each of the Scottish police forces, the Health and Safety Executive, Her Majesty’s Custom and Excise, the Department of Trade and Industry, the Department of Transport and the Department of Social Security.

    The Prime Minister : Operation Scotcheck was a joint police and Health and Safety Executive initiative mirroring similar operations previously held in England. The purpose was to check that vehicles carrying hazardous substances were doing so in accordance with the relevant regulations. All eight police forces in Scotland took part in the operation. In addition a number of Government Departments were invited by the police to take part in the exercise for their particular interests and to be present at the various checkpoints. This is a cost-effective way of checking compliance with the law in a range of different areas.

     

    Benefit Fraud

    Mr. McLeish : To ask the Prime Minister how many joint initiatives have been mounted by the Department of Employment and the Benefits Agency on benefit fraud protection under the terms of the liaison agreement; and if he will make a statement concerning the exchange of any information between Departments obtained from such initiatives.

    The Prime Minister : Questions on operational matters in the Employment Service executive agency are the responsibility of Mr. Mike Fogden, the agency’s chief executive, to whom I have referred this question for reply.

  • Mr Major’s Press Conference with Charles Haughey – 4 December 1991

    Below is the text of Mr Major’s joint press conference with the Irish Taoiseach, Charles Haughey, held in Dublin on 4th December 1991.


    MR HAUGHEY:

    It is my pleasure to introduce to you the British Prime Minister and the first thing I want to say is that this is his first visit to Dublin and for that reason he is particularly welcome. We have just had a very useful, constructive, discussion about matters of mutual interest, bilateral, European and international. And it is now my pleasure to introduce John Major, the British Prime Minister, to you.

    PRIME MINISTER:

    Taoiseach, thank you very much indeed. Can I just echo what has been said a moment or so ago. We have I think this morning and over luncheon had a very valuable discussion following on the discussion we had at Downing Street earlier in the summer. It has given us a very useful opportunity to exchange views on current developments in the European Community, on other international issues, and of course on a range of bilateral matters including specifically the Anglo-Irish relationship.

    In my view in the past the meetings between the Taoiseach and the Prime Minister perhaps have taken place too rarely. And one matter we have decided upon this morning is that in future we will meet twice a year, alternating those meetings between London and Dublin. And in those meetings we will cover the whole range of issues, bilateral matters, international matters, Community matters and any other events that it seems necessary for us to discuss and I think those will prove to be most useful meetings in the future.

    I believe it is pretty hard to see how we can make progress on the difficult issues before us without more regular contact. And if today’s meeting is anything to go by, I have no doubt that a continuing dialogue will bear fruit in time.

    We both are of the opinion that we need to set an example in this respect, we need to show everyone that democracy is strengthened and not weakened by dialogue and the sooner everyone commits themselves to dialogue rather than violence the sooner we will begin to solve the problems in front of us.

    In our discussions this morning on the Community, the Taoiseach and I have discussed the position on a number of matters likely to arise at the European Council next week, which both of us of course will be attending. We share many similar views on these issues – common foreign and security policy, defence, the social area and powers for the European Parliament are areas where there is a substantial similarity of view between the two governments, not on every dot and comma of the discussions but a broad and welcome similarity.

    Some very useful progress has been made at the meetings in Brussels on Monday and Tuesday, but I do not think anybody attending the meeting next week has any doubt that a number of very important issues still remain to be sorted out. We will be doing our best in Maastricht to reach an agreement on Monday and Tuesday of next week.

    We also had a very useful exchange on the Uruguay Round and I emphasised in particular the importance of reaching agreement on that round before the end of this year. This will require flexibility on all sides, by the United States, by the Community, by the Cairns Group, but the prize of being able to liberalise world trade is a very valuable prize for every country in the world.

    The Taoiseach and I also had the opportunity of discussing important aspects of the unique relationship between the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland, and following on from our meetings in London and in Luxembourg in the summer, and those other occasions we have been able to meet, on occasions when we have been together at European meetings, we have again stressed today the very great value of close cooperation across a whole range of issues between our two countries. We both welcome that .

    We also in our discussion this morning affirmed yet again our joint unreserved condemnation of terrorist violence, including the tit for tat killings by both Republican and by Loyalist terrorists. And I think the joint message of our discussion this morning is quite simple, quite unequivocal, their campaigns are futile and we are determined that those who commit terrorist crimes should be brought to justice.

    We have agreed this morning to keep under review a whole range of measures on cross-border security cooperation, we have reiterated the importance we attach to the arrangements for ensuring that fugitives are brought to justice, we welcome the very valuable and constructive political talks which took place in Northern Ireland earlier this year and we have reaffirmed the commitment of both governments to do all we can to help with the early launch of fresh talks.

    I believe it has been a very refreshing and a very worthwhile exchange of views. And it is for that reason that I look forward very much to continuing this dialogue both informally and in the formal bilateral contact that I announced a few moments ago. I am sure that is in the interests of both our countries and I know the Taoiseach and I both look forward to it. I think if I may I will leave opening remarks at that.

     

    QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS:

    QUESTION:

    In relation to Northern Ireland the communique does speak of the need to get fresh talks under way, but it seems to be weak on what you as the heads of two sovereign governments can do in relation to encouraging the parties in the North to get together round the table and indulge in dialogue. What initiative do you propose to take to encourage them to do that?

    MR HAUGHEY:

    That is primarily a matter for Secretary Brooke and Minister Gerry Collins and as you know Secretary Brooke in particular has been making very dedicated efforts to get the process restarted. He has had discussions, particularly with the representative of the Unionists and with the other parties in Northern Ireland and he is personally committed to resuming the process and will make every effort he can. So far as the Prime Minister and myself are concerned, what we can do is lend the weight of our respective authorities to the process and we do in the communique urge everybody concerned to make an effort to get the process under way again and indeed to promote harmony and agreement, not just through the process of the talks but in every other way possible.

    PRIME MINISTER:

    I think there is no need to add anything to that, I agree with it, I think that says it all.

    QUESTION:

    Prime Minister, how are you hoping to get this dialogue going again before the British general election?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    Irrespective of the British General Election, the need for political progress in Northern Ireland remains. We think there is still an opportunity for talks before the election if the basis of them can be agreed. And that, as the Taoiseach has just said, is what Peter Brooke is working for and I hope it will be possible to bring that about. We certainly see no reason for an interregnum between now and the other side of the election, that is just time wasted. The sooner they can start the better.

    QUESTION:

    It seems that other European countries would like you to give something in return for the federal phraseology coming out, do you think you should give something in return and if so what?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    We have given a great deal, we have given a great deal in the discussions and we put a great deal into the discussions, and a good deal, as you will see when the latest draft of the Treaty is produced, actually incorporates British suggestions. So I think the suggestion that because on a particular issue there has been movement that there needs to be reciprocal horse-trading of that rather blunt kind is not something I accept.

    There are a whole range of issues that need to be determined by agreement, the political union treaty goes ahead by the agreement of all Twelve, and we have to reach agreement and respect the areas of particular concern to individual countries. A number of countries have reservations about different aspects of the treaty. The Community, to be successful, will have to respect those and reach an agreed position wherever that is possible.

    I have made it clear from the beginning of these negotiations I want an agreement in Europe, but I cannot have any agreement, it has got to be an agreement that I think is in the interests both of the United Kingdom and of Europe and if I can get an agreement on that I will be very pleased and I will come back, I will place that agreement before Parliament and I will fight very hard for it. But that does mean that there will need to be movement from the situation as it has been over the last few days.

    QUESTION:

    [Inaudible]

    PRIME MINISTER:

    I do not take at all lightly the views of people who have to face terrorist activities from whatever community they come from and whether they are in Northern Ireland or whether they are in the United Kingdom itself, in the mainland of the United Kingdom, it is very serious. It is because of the concern that we have about security matters that we have taken so much action over recent years to try and end it, it is for that reason that Peter Brooke is engaged perpetually in trying to bring talks about and political development about. It is for that reason that he and Gerry Collins meet regularly and the inter-governmental conference meets every six weeks. It is for that reason the Taoiseach and I have begun a series of dialogues.

    What we are concerned about is to stop the circumstances in which some people think they have a right for an aggrievance they feel to murder other people and to blow them to pieces, that is not acceptable. That is what we are here talking about to stop and will go on talking about it and seeing what we can do stop it. And when we catch the people who do that they must face the requisite punishment.

    So I feel very strongly about it and I want to see that violence brought to an end. That is the Taoiseach’s view too, that is why we are talking.

    QUESTION:

    Do you recall a similar commitment back in 1980, it did not happen, can I ask both of you why you think it is actually going to become a reality now, eleven years later?

    MR HAUGHEY:

    I left office shortly after that, but I am back in office now.

    PRIME MINISTER:

    And I am not proposing to leave office.

    MR HAUGHEY:

    I think you can take it we are both firmly committed to this, it make common sense. No two countries in Europe have more interests in common today, we have a shared history, not all of which is to our mutual benefit, but certainly today we are partners in the Anglo-Irish Agreement, we are members of the European Community together, and the two countries have at personal, social, economic level enormous ties. So it makes sense that we should meet regularly and discuss matters of mutual bilateral interest, but also matters of European interest and international matters.

    QUESTION:

    Mr Haughey, the Irish Times says you have a new initiative on Northern Ireland, can you tell us what it is?

    MR HAUGHEY:

    I am not responsible for what the Irish Times publishes.

    QUESTION:

    Do you have a new initiative on Northern Ireland?

    MR HAUGHEY:

    We have agreed, the Prime Minister and myself, to meet regularly to discuss all aspects of Anglo-Irish relations, including political progress in Northern Ireland.

    QUESTION:

    Do you regard the Anglo-Irish Agreement as merely a foundation which should be built upon?

    MR HAUGHEY:

    Yes, certainly.

    QUESTION:

    In what way would you like it built upon?

    MR HAUGHEY:

    I would like to see, and the British Prime Minister agrees with this, that we should extend it to have other Ministers present, and as your communique in front of you says, we would see the advent of the Single Market next year as offering a wide range of opportunities for greater north-south cooperation in areas like energy, agriculture, tourism and so on. So the inter-governmental conference could play a part in encouraging that sort of cooperation.

    QUESTION:

    Could I ask you a little bit more about your hopes for the Maastricht summit, where do you stand now, is the issue of federalism off the table, do you think you have achieved something on that and at what cost?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    As far as I was concerned the issue of federalism was never on the table, a federal destiny is not our view of the European Community, we have made that perfectly clear right from the start. As to where I stand across the whole range of issues, I invite you, Neil, to read the speech I made in the House of Commons last week, very comprehensive, very clear and has not changed.

    QUESTION:

    You say that you are rejecting any kind of horse-trading; you also say you want to see further movement before the treaty is acceptable to you. Does that mean that you are now less optimistic of a settlement?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    It was always going to be the case from the very beginning that many of the things that I hope will form part of the final settlement at Maastricht would not be agreed until the Heads of Government got round the table. Until everything is agreed, a great deal will not be agreed. That has always been the position.

    What I said a moment ago about horse-trading is that it is a very simplistic way to conduct negotiations to say: “If you happen to make a concession here, there must be a corresponding concession there!” That is not the way to conduct extremely complex negotiations of this sort where national interests are at stake across a whole range of issues.

    We must take the negotiations in the round. We must look at them and then we must make a decision when the negotiations are completed as to whether the whole package collectively is in the interests of Europe and in the interests of the United Kingdom.

    Let me make one further point: there is no single country in the European Community who at the end of Tuesday if we reach an agreement will be absolutely satisfied with every aspect of that agreement. All of them will not be. All of them will have something in that agreement that they for preference would not have had and we will all have to make adjustments: is the balance of the package right and is it a package that we can go back and present to our individual domestic parliaments as a package we should sign up to? That is what we have to consider, looking at the whole thing collectively.

    QUESTION:

    Are you more or less optimistic that that can be achieved?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    I don’t know yet whether it can be achieved. I have set out what I believe needs to be done in the House of Commons. As to whether it can be achieved, I will know that when we have the discussions at Maastricht – I can’t make judgements of that in advance.

    What I have said consistently is that it is in the interests of Europe to get an agreement. That is not just my view; that is the view of every Minister who will actually be at the Maastricht Summit. With that collective will, I would hope we can reach agreement.

    MR HAUGHEY:

    I can confirm that the Prime Minister in my conversation with him is quite clear that he wants an agreement in Maastricht and so do I – there is no doubt about that.

    QUESTION:

    Could I ask you a question based on the communique? Since believing things to be full of sweetness and light, what did you disagree about?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    That is a new definition of optimism!

    MR HAUGHEY:

    Unfortunately, Prime Minister, this man was here with us in Dublin for a long time and then he went over to London and he learned these bad habits.

    We don’t agree on everything. We have different priorities going to Maastricht naturally. We in Ireland, a small peripheral country, have our own priorities and the things that we will be looking for but, as the Prime Minister pointed out, when agreement is reached, as we hope it will be, there will be things that we will not be all that enamoured about but by and large we hope that the overall balance of the agreement will be to everybody’s advantage.

    QUESTION:

    Do you agree on defence and the social charter?

    MR HAUGHEY:

    Not fully, not totally.

    PRIME MINISTER:

    There are very substantial areas of agreement in both those areas but I don’t think when one runs down the Community that you find any two countries who would wholly and absolutely agree on each part of every aspect of that. There is a broad measure of agreement and of objective in many of those areas but it would be very difficult to say one agreed with every dot and comma and think that is true even of those countries who traditionally have been closer together on individual issues.

    QUESTION:

    Mr. Haughey, did you get a legal binding commitment by the richer countries to increase the structural funds for poorer countries from Mr. Major?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    It is not in my gift.

    MR HAUGHEY:

    It is not in his gift.

    QUESTION:

    [Indistinct] the richer countries are opposed to binding legal agreements to increase structural funds [Indistinct] you are all in favour of political statements [Indistinct].

    MR HAUGHEY:

    The shorthand we use there is “economic and social cohesion” and so far we have been able to have inserted in the treaty language a number of important principles which acknowledge the importance of economic and social cohesion and that certain steps must be taken in regard to it.

    In the Maastricht discussions and negotiations, we will be looking for firmer guarantees as to the future of the implementation of the principles of economic and social cohesion but just as everything else, there is still a great deal of negotiation to take place.

    QUESTION:

    What was Mr. Major’s view on the commitment to binding [Inaudible].

    MR HAUGHEY:

    Well I will answer for him on that one.

    PRIME MINISTER:

    I might say a word myself too!

    MR HAUGHEY:

    Because he knows that this is a matter of great importance and significance to Ireland, he will be as favourably disposed as possible! [Laughter]

    PRIME MINISTER:

    Perhaps I might add a word to that [Laughter]. We need to examine the details of what it means, how it would work and what can be done. I am perfectly content for us to look at the general principle of cohesion – I think it is quite wise for us to do so – and I am perfectly content for us to agree at the Summit the areas that we should actually look at but these are decisions that will affect not just beneficiary countries, not just the relatively rich countries, but all the countries of the Community.

    We do actually need some solid facts, some solid research, some solid background. We need to know what it affects and how it affects and in what time-scale and to what degree. None of that is yet clear and it is for that reason that you can’t make binding agreements.

    What I am perfectly prepared to say is that I understand the concern that is felt in Ireland about that. I understand that very clearly and other countries have the same feeling and I think it is right for us to examine the matter and make it clear that we will examine it but we cannot reach conclusions on it until that examination is over, not in advance of that examination.

    If one wants to get the wrong answer not just for one country but for every country, then you start making commitments without having examined what those commitments might mean and for that reason I think we have to take this measure in detail when we have that information before us and when we have to discuss all the financial perspectives.

    QUESTION:

    Can I ask you please for your comments on the latest French proposal on this that if there isn’t agreement by 1996, then the whole thing will go to majority voting by 1998?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    I haven’t seen the text of anything the French may have produced. A new proposal on one or other aspect of the treaty emerges out of every 15 seconds at the moment from somewhere or other. I haven’t seen it.

    But nothing can change the position that I have set out before on economic and monetary union and that is the position that the British Government and the British Parliament will want to decide upon at the time Stage 3 looms and be able to decide on that without commitment at that time. That means we need to know not just when but whether we go into Stage 3 at that stage. No new commitments can change that.

    At first blush, the French proposal is not attractive; I have not myself examined it, but in any event, even if people decided they would go forward by qualified majority vote, no qualified majority vote could take the British Parliament and the British Government into economic and monetary union unless the British Government and the British Parliament wished to go into it.

    MR HAUGHEY:

    Our position is that we are different from Great Britain in that regard and again, that is because as a small peripheral country we have a different set of priorities. We are wholeheartedly in favour of economic and monetary union because we believe that it is in this way that we can best secure our economic future.

    We have been negotiating for 12 months on the details of economic and monetary union and so far we don’t feel that at the end of the day we will have any particular difficulty with what will emerge.

    QUESTION:

    In view of the recent [Indistinct] in London, will you use that time [Indistinct] to assess the success or otherwise of Mr. Brooke’s initiative and decide on whether or not [Indistinct].

    MR HAUGHEY:

    The Brooke initiative or the Brooke talks are ongoing and of course there will be intergovernmental conferences to assess progress in that regard. Our bilateral, twice-annual meetings will be of a much wider scope; they will naturally review progress made in regard to Secretary Brooke’s initiative or any other matters in Northern Ireland but they will also range over the totality of relationships between the two countries.

    QUESTION:

    Will you have to [Indistinct] from both governments working to prepare for that first bilateral meeting?

    MR HAUGHEY:

    That is the normal process, yes.

    QUESTION:

    Can the European Community tackle the problem of Northern Ireland? Does it have the scope for that? Recently, the European Office in Brussels referred to [Inaudible].

    MR HAUGHEY:

    I wouldn’t see the Community becoming involved in anything purely political but I do see the whole evolution of the Community as having an enormous impact on the affairs of Northern Ireland and indeed the whole island of Ireland. In particular, the advent of the single market, for instance, is bound to have major beneficial repercussions on the possibilities for economic cooperation between the two parts of Ireland and I also believe that as Europe moves closer to real union – to economic, monetary and political union – that that general movement will have a beneficial effect on the community relationships in Northern Ireland. If all the people in Europe, particularly the nations of Europe who in the past have been enemies and gone to war with each other, can now sink their differences in a new exciting and forward-looking European union, surely that must have a message for all the people in Ireland and particularly in Northern Ireland?

    QUESTION:

    [Inaudible]

    PRIME MINISTER:

    No.

    QUESTION:

    Taoiseach, one question. How is it compatible that you are asking in Maastricht for more political union but you are not prepared to accept that the EC be involved in political involvement in the case of Northern Ireland?

    MR HAUGHEY:

    I was asked about the European Community getting involved politically in Northern Ireland. I don’t think there is any possibility of that no more than the Community will be involved in political affairs in Dublin.

    PRIME MINISTER:

    Common foreign policy is for the Community to collectively use its weight externally – that is what it does very successfully.

    MR HAUGHEY:

    I don’t see what the contradiction is.

    QUESTION:

    You stressed the importance of dialogue and [Indistinct] in Northern Ireland. Is it in any way a message also [Indistinct].

    PRIME MINISTER:

    The prospect of getting together and talking about the difficulties that people face seems to me the only rational way to move towards areas of agreement. I believe in that prospect and want to reach agreement and I think a proper dialogue which enables a better understanding of the positions of people who may be quite sharply opposed on some things is the only credible and rational way to proceed so I do want to see such a dialogue.

    I have watched with admiration the way in which Peter Brooke has brought together parties to talk – I think it it wholly admirable – and I think that principle is one that bears very wide application.

    QUESTION:

    The Deputy of the [Indistinct] Peter Robinson said recently that the Union no longer existed in any recognisable form and that Britain was in fact slowly pushing Northern Ireland out of the Union. Would the Prime Minister like to comment on that?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    I didn’t see the comment and I didn’t see the context in which the comment was made but the British position has been perfectly clear for many years and it hasn’t changed.

    QUESTION:

    Prime Minister, can I ask you a question about security? The communique talks about the two governments building on a high level of security cooperation. One of your MPs, Ken Hinds, in Dublin with the British-Irish Parliamentary Group, did express reservations about cross-border security and suggested that failures on the southern side were costing lives in the north.

    What have you got to say about that?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    There is good cooperation between the security forces and I welcome that but we do know that the terrorists do try and exploit the border – we have seen that over many years – and what we want to see is whether more can be done to deny them that resource but I do not believe that elaborating upon that would be at all useful.

    QUESTION:

    Mr Major, the Unionists argue that you will have to restart these talks from scratch. Do you think that you should go back to the drawing board? What is your attitude to it?

    PRIME MINISTER:

    My attitude is that I wish to see the talks restarted. I want to see Strand 1 restarted. That is what we are working for. The sooner we can get that done the better and I think often it is better to stick to those propositions and make sure we get the talks started. That is the most important thing for us – by “us” I mean the British Government, the Irish Government – and for all the communities in Northern Ireland and that is the direction in which we are working.

    QUESTION:

    [Inaudible but would Mr. Major consider personally asking the political parties in Northern Ireland to come and see him if there were a breakdown of the talks so that they could be restarted]

    PRIME MINISTER:

    I think everybody knows – and if they didn’t know they have certainly known from what we have put in the communique and what I have said today – that we actually want those talks to recommence. That is a general message.